Image of Dr. East Phillips seated with the text, Episode #64 of the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast: Clarify Your Marketing by Defining Your Lighthouse with East Phillips

Today I’m joined by Dr. East Phillips. East is an acupuncturist, business coach, and former long-time professor at Pacific College of Health Sciences.

She’s committed to helping others actualize their greatest potential and live with passion and enthusiasm.

In her business coaching, East helps fellow acupuncturists build practices that are aligned with their goals and that bring them joy instead of burnout.

She also loves to help acupuncturists create online classes and other alternate streams of income so they can have more freedom in their business.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with East!

Don’t forget, Acupuncture Marketing School, the online class, is on sale now for $200 off. Bonus: Anyone who signs up this week gets a FREE 1:1 Marketing Strategy Session with me!

This special sale ends on November 6th at midnight Pacific Time.

>> Click here to learn more and use code PUMPKIN to save $200!

In this episode, we talk about:

  • Knowing when it’s time to make a big change in your practice
  • Setting your prices
  • Recognizing the many forms of burnout
  • Should you monetize something you’re giving away for free?
  • Feeling aligned in your practice by defining your Light House
  • Setting and maintaining boundaries to preserve your time and energy

🎙️ Listen to Episode #64: Clarify Your Marketing By Defining Your Lighthouse with East Phillips

Show Notes:

Thank you to our sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Jane. Jane is an all-in-one practice management software designed to help you streamline your Acupuncture practice. I use Jane in my practice and I love it! 💙

With helpful features like online booking, electronic charting, insurance billing, and much more, Jane works hard to keep up with your busy practice.  

If you’re interested in learning more, head to jane.app/acupuncture-us.

Don’t forget to use the code ACUSCHOOL1MO at sign-up for a one-month grace period inside Jane. 🕺

Subscribe to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify

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Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:05):

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:34):

Welcome back. Today, I’m joined by East Phillips, an acupuncturist and business coach, and in this episode we cover so many different topics, including knowing when it’s time to make a big change in your practice, setting your prices, recognizing the many forms of burnout, knowing whether you should monetize something that you’re giving away for free, feeling aligned in your practice by defining what East discusses as your lighthouse, I think you’re going to like this, and setting and maintaining boundaries to preserve your time and energy. I really hope you enjoy this episode with East. Let’s get started.

[JANE APP] (01:10):

Today’s episode is sponsored by Jane, an all-in-one practice management software with helpful features to power your acupuncture practice. Jane offers flexible scheduling options that match the way you work. You have the option of offering one-on-one online sessions for initial consults, meaning in person and scheduling staggered appointments to accommodate treating patients across different treatment rooms. Jane, has you covered. Keep the relaxation going with a seamless checkout experience using Jane’s PCI-compliant payment Solution, Jane Payments. You can collect patient credit cards securely through your intake form or at the time of booking with an online booking payment policy. This can also help reduce no-shows in your practice. Definitely a win-win. And Jane’s Unlimited SMS and email reminders can be sent automatically before each appointment as an extra layer of no-show prevention. To learn more about how Jane’s helpful features can help you power your acupuncture practice, head to Jane.App/acupuncture-us, to book a one-on-one demo with a member of their team. Or if you’re ready to get started, you can use the code [ACUSCHOOL1MO] at the time of signup to get a one-month grace period applied to your new account. And I’ll put the link and the code in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (02:35):

One last note before we dive into today’s episode, Acupuncture Marketing School. The online class is on sale this week for $200 off. The discount code is [PUMPKIN] and the sale ends on Monday, November 6th at midnight Pacific time. If you’re not familiar with it, Acupuncture Marketing School is a prerecorded video-based training that walks you through creating a strong marketing strategy for your unique practice and your unique patients. The goal is to help you get visible in your community, to reach more people and to grow your practice in ways that feel comfortable and authentic to you. This training is detailed and step-by-step with workbooks and checklists to help you understand how to apply core marketing concepts to your business in a way that’s effective. The way I teach this class is very linear, so if that’s how you like to learn, then I think you’ll enjoy this.

(03:32):

I’m adding a special bonus for anyone who signs up this week, A free one-hour, one-on-one marketing strategy session with me so you can have accountability if you want it, and we can work through any specific questions you have about the class or about marketing in general as well as fine tune your marketing strategy. The class is worth 15 N-C-C-A-O-M-P-D-A credits, so lots of bang for your buck. If you’re a marketing beginner and you need help, this class was built for you and I’d absolutely love to help you. If you have questions, feel free to email me at michelle@michellegrasek.com. I’m more than happy to chat with you before you sign up to answer all of your questions. Again, the discount code is [PUMPKIN] and it expires on November 6th at midnight. I’ll put the link to the class in the show notes so you can take a look. Alright, let’s dive into this episode.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (04:29):

Hello, Dr. Phillips. How are you?

[EAST PHILLIPS] (04:32):

I’m great. How are you doing?

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (04:34):

I am so good. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. Do you prefer Dr. East?

[EAST PHILLIPS] (04:40):

I prefer East

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (04:42):

Just East, okay, perfect.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (04:43):

Yeah, East is great. Some people call me Dr. East. East is Great, East Phillips, my old name was East Harridan, East, I go by West.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (04:53):

Lots of options. So you are an acupuncturist and you were in practice for quite a long time, 20 years I believe, and you also have been a business coach for other acupuncturists and wellness professionals for a long time as well.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (05:09):

Yeah, that’s correct. I graduated in 1999 from Pacific College, PCHS 2004. I became a professor there and loved being a professor at Pacific College and a supervisor just being with students, being in the medicine. So I had my private practice and that. 2010, I went back and got my doctorate at Pacific College and then in 2000 I finished my doctorate, I did the three years, I finished it in 2013. Then at that time is when PCHS was creating that transitional doctorate. I was part of that creation and then part of that launching professor group. We launched that program and I taught in that program for another like three or four years, alongside private practice, alongside a life, alongside the birth of two children, alongside a move, alongside restarting and reinventing myself, my practice and all of the above. And very organically because I was a professor, because I had done so many different practice locations and settings and all of the things, people were coming to me for advice, like, “Can I pick your brain?”

(06:19):

It just so happened that after a very long exchange of having my brains picked and not charging for it, somebody said, “Gosh, you’re so good at this, you should charge.” I thought to myself, “You know what, buddy? After you, I will.” So I went to my practice website and I just put a button on there. It said “Practice Coaching, $150.” I didn’t even know if anybody would buy it and next day, ding, ding, ding and it just was so organic and so natural. But that’s a perfect story because now I help a lot of people, like, I call it mission possible. That story is an exact example of mission possible. It’s like a lot of times we don’t know if we could monetize on something for which we’re giving away for free. I wasn’t sure, I was like, would people really buy business coaching? Like is that something?

(07:07):

So I just put it out there, like hung the shingle, if you will, and people started buying. Then I was doing all of the things and realizing I really loved supporting practitioners because for so many years, like many people listening and maybe yourself, you feel like you’re a solopreneur, it’s very lonely, you’re not sure about what you’re doing and your decisions. You feel like you’re in a little silo making these decisions. So I really loved helping the practitioners. They are the ones that are out there holding the space for the many and quite often they ask themselves, well, who holds the space, who holds the space for me? So I started doing that for a number of years and then in 2018, I was driving to my private practice.

(07:53):

If anybody listening can relate to this story, we need to talk. I’m driving to my practice, I have a full day of patience, and I’m thinking to myself, wow, I hope my patients cancel today so I could go work on something else. I stopped the car, I pulled over, I looked at myself in the mirror and I said, nobody deserves that on either end. Your patients don’t deserve that. You don’t deserve that. Basically, get your stuff together. So I did. That was a wakeup call because I’m either all in or I’m all out. I don’t want to be half me and I don’t want to, that, I would never want a practitioner to touch me that had that feeling like, oh, I hope East cancels today. I’d rather the person’s like, I can’t wait to see east. So I went in, I treated my patients, I typed up my dear John, dear patient letter and gave my notice at my space and then I transitioned over.

(08:49):

I told myself, the practice will go on a golden shelf. My golden shelf is where I put my passions that I just can’t act on at this time. So that’s another thing. A lot of practitioners, a lot of people are afraid to let go of something and to bring something else in so they get overly greedy, overly passionate, and then nothing gets done and then they’re just stuck. So for that situation, you just say, hey, private practice, I do love you, but right now I’m loving something else. So you’re going to go on my golden shelf, I can always open you back up, and then I’m going to go all in on this thing, is what is what I did. I went all in on coaching and oh my goodness, it’s been such a fun journey, events and connection and support. It’s led to books and all sorts of things. So there you go.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (09:36):

I love it. I love that you are all in all the time. I think that’s wonderful. I’m so happy to hear you talk about the idea of that golden shelf and putting something you’re passionate about away, like temporarily. It doesn’t mean you can never return. I think a lot of people don’t know this, but I had a practice when I graduated for about four years and it didn’t feel quite right to me and so I accepted a job in acupuncture admissions for my alma mater. I actually closed that practice. I sold my things to someone else, another acupuncturist moved into my space and just took over. It was maybe a year before the pandemic, I realized that I missed it and it was time to go back and everybody thought I was nuts. They were like, “You already did that and then you ended it and you’re going to start again?? It’s been like five years.” I had been in part-time practice for a colleague of mine, but that was like two half days a week. because I had a full-time job and then I also had my online business, my marketing business. So yeah, I opened it up again and now it’s been four years, but I think that is a really scary proposition to just, not necessarily that people want to close their practice, but to make a big change. They’re feeling like they make a huge change and it’s permanent and they can never go back or do something else. So I think it’s nice to remind people that there’s fluidity in your career. it’s, hopefully it’ll be a nice long career, whatever it is.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (11:07):

I think framing it as using language at this time really helps with that because when something feels final, it is scary for all of us, like I’m closing my practice forever, versus at this time I am going to focus over here and put my practice on a golden shelf. That just gives a nice warm visual of love and honor to that thing, that entity, that practice that you created. And then again, it doesn’t feel so permanent and it gives you permission to try something else. And like I said in that story, and I really mean this is, I think where I’m pivoting now, almost like, the words that just came in my head was, was like, I’m almost like the pivot police, or I’m like the passion police. What that means is, if you are driving into your practice with a case of the Mondays, okay, first of all, that right there, if anybody has a case of the Monday is like, oh, it’s Monday, I have to go to work, you need to check yourself because nobody on this planet deserves that frequency or energy, like in what you’re delivering, the gift you’re delivering.

(12:16):

Even if you’re the most amazing acupuncturist, but you have that poo poo attitude of like, oh, I have to go see patients, it’s going to bring that whole experience down, whether it’s conscious, subconscious, energetic, ethereal, or what have you. So the sooner you align yourself with your calling, which is your purpose, with a divine touch, the more you can be on purpose, on point, and feel like your calling, your future, your purpose is pulling you through life, versus I’m pushing myself through life like a damp cloth because I went to Chinese medical school and I borrowed $130,000 and I should treat these patients that drive me nuts and I can’t stand. That is not good. That’s poisonous, that’s low vibration. That’s not you being the best version of yourself.

(13:06):

Best version of yourself is getting really clear on what you love to do. If it’s in a practice, that’s great. So then let’s get really specific, what types of patients, what types of conditions do you love to treat, and let go of everything else. Don’t be greedy. If you love fertility and you love facial rejuvenation, there you go. Then if somebody comes to you for migraines and you’re like, ah, I really don’t like treating migraines, then just don’t be greedy. They’ll be like, “Well, I need everything. Me, me, me.” Say, you know what, I could treat you for your migraines. It’s not really something I love to treat or I specialize in. In fact, I have a colleague who geeks out on migraines, knows everything about migraines. So if you or my brother, my sister, whatever’s appropriate, I would send you this person for your migraines.”

(13:56):

That is a perfect way to refer somebody out. Don’t make them feel bad. It’s just, “It’s not my specialty. It’s not something that I feel super confident.” You don’t even have to say that. Just again, it’s about aligning yourself with what you love to do and going all in on it. It doesn’t have to be your gift, like some people say, well I’m not naturally talented in this, but I really love it. Guess what? Passion will outweigh talent any day. It’s like somebody who’s just so passionate from their heart in delivering a gift that they have, even if that gift is small, is going to be more powerful than somebody that has innate gift, but has a poo attitude about delivering it. Like, oh, here you go. I wrote about this in the book. So I wrote a book called More Than a Treatment, how when we create an experience for our patients.

(14:50):

They actually get better results. It’s been clinically proven. Outcomes, treatment outcomes and the efficacy of your treatments are way better when you create an experience. In the book, I detail all the many ways that you can create that experience. But one of the experiences is you, is your mindset, is your attitude, is the energy you’re bringing into the room. Our energy is infectious. So if you come in and you think you’re hiding your poo poo attitude, you’re probably not. It’s going through the needles. I studied under Dr. Mikio Sankey. And like even the coffee you drank yesterday is going through the needles, the fight you had on the way to your office is going through the needles or your hands into those patients. So being really diligent and mindful about that and making sure that you are aligned, that you are aligned with souls, with God, with the higher powers out there and your highest version so that you’re delivering your gifts at the highest frequency and vibration. I know I’m getting a little woo woo, but we didn’t have any parameters around this

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (16:00):

I love it. I always think when people show up and they have that feeling of, oh yuck, it’s Monday, or they have the Sunday scaries, as they call it, where they are just dreading going back to work for the upcoming week, I always wonder A, if they’re not doing something that they really love, assuming that their work environment is good, so that’s not the factor, or B, are they just super burnt out and they need to recalibrate, like you were saying, identifying like, who are the patients that I really love to treat and what, like what is weighing me down and how can I make a change so that I do look forward to going back to work? I think sometimes that’s, it could also be people changing their schedule. Maybe you could just start in the afternoon on Monday. There’s no rule that says you have to be there on Monday morning if there is something else you truly want to be doing and then you feel good when you go in in the afternoon.

(17:02):

I have discovered in my practice I am the opposite. I love treating in the morning and then around like 3 o’clock I feel that energy dip and I’m like, oh wow. All of a sudden, I’m ready to be done. So I have two days a week in my practice where I try to be done around 3:00, 3:30 and I felt really guilty about that for a long time. But now those days I just get so excited because it feels like I’m not going to work. I’m only there until 3:30. I get all my good energy is in the morning and the first part of the day so I’m not worried about feeling tired to have the 5:30 PM patient because that’s very draining for me. But I just always ask people, really get honest with yourself about what your practice would look like to make you feel really good so you don’t have the burnout. Because sometimes people burn out and then they think it’s this medicine, it’s these patients. I’m not meant to do this, when really it’s, maybe you just need a break. Maybe you need a different schedule. Maybe you need a specialty that you’re really firm on, like you said, I only do fertility, something like that. I think it helps people a lot to have those honest internal conversations.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (18:18):

Yep, absolutely. I have those same conversations with people, whether it’s conscious or subconscious, you will will, WILL, your patients away. If you choose to open your office on days you don’t want to be there, you’ll end up like cutting your finger and needing stitches so that you don’t have to go to work. Your body will do this. Your soul knows what you want and your soul wants to feed that inner child and so it’ll do things like that for you. Don’t wait for those kinds of hit you over the head clues. The other thing, burnout is huge. So the structure of your practice and also the way that you deliver the services can be a burnout, meaning I see a lot of practitioners and it’s tied to pricing. They’re not making enough money because they’re not charging appropriately and therefore, they get burned out.

(19:14):

They’re like, this sucks this, I can’t, nobody can make money doing Chinese medicine. That is a complete lie. I can give you plenty of 7-figure practitioners. I can name them off the top of my head. You can go to my, I have a YouTube. I interviewed Dr. Martha Hall, who makes $800,000 a year, consistently working three days a week. That’s it. She has three treatment rooms, three days a week, she doesn’t have a big group of associates that she’s having work for her. That’s it. She’s a sole practitioner. She has two people that help her with admin and running the herbs. That’s it, $800,000 a week, she says in the podcast, or the interview, I could easily make a million if I just came in one more day.

(19:56):

So what people do, I see practitioners, they give a bouquet of flowers and they charge a single flower price. If you go to the grocery store, a single rose is $4.99. A bouquet is $49.99. But same thing applies in practice. There’s these practitioners out there and in a session they’re giving acupuncture, acupressure, guacha, cupping, moxibustion, aromatherapy, tuning forks, red light, all these things, a potluck of modalities within a session and if you go to the website, it says acupuncture, 60 bucks. No wonder they’re burned out. So sure, you can still give acupuncture for 60 bucks, that’s your basic acupuncture, 60 bucks, but if you want a session that includes acupuncture, moxibustion, and all these other modalities, a session with me is $150. Up to you. What do you want? Then it’s up to you, like you said, to have those tight boundaries to say, when the person comes in and they’re like, well, can’t you just do those other things as well? No, that’s a session. Or that’s my, that’s called my Chinese medicine session plus. If you want that, that’s a little bit more money. It takes more time and modalities.

(21:17):

Think about Apple. I have a phone in my hand. The first iPhone I bought was $300. The one I have in my hand was $1,300. So what happened? Apple kept improving this device, adding more bells, more whistles, more functionality. As we go through practice, as we go through our lives, we have to do CEUs, we get more skilled, we get more devices, we get more bells and whistles in our practice and in our sessions. Our prices need to reflect that, otherwise, you will burn out. It’s not sustainable, it’s not scalable for you to continue with low prices, but offering like the world. So sometimes it’s just a matter of restructuring your practice so that you now have single flowers and bouquets, people understand and then delivering it that way.

(22:09):

That helps with burnout right away, because when you restructure or just simply raise your prices, then you will weed out some people, possibly, not always, but you’ll make more money seeing less people there. That’s going to solve burnout right there. So those are a lot of things. I have stories upon stories of people shoulding on themselves, “Well, I should work Mondays because that’s when people want to come in.” These are lies people tell themselves. That is not the truth. The truth is you decide when you want to treat, where you want to treat, how you want to treat, with whom you want to treat. You clearly define that and you stay the course on that. That’s it. You don’t let the patients dictate that stuff. It is your sandbox. You need to lead it like the CEO of a company.

(23:05):

And that’s another thing. If you worked for a company for five years and never got a raise, never got a promotion, same job, wouldn’t you be looking for another one? So as your own CEO, you need to give yourself raises, vacations, promotions. What does a promotion look like? Promotion looks like, okay, I’ve been offering acupuncture sessions. I’m now going to offer this acupuncture plus session and it’s going to include, or I like to say the doctor e-signature session and it comes with acupuncture and moxibustion and red-light therapy and if you want the doctor e-signature plus session, that comes with a few more modalities and that is $200. That’s how ACEO would look at a business and create new products.

(23:52):

Going back to the Apple they came out with the first iPhone and they’re like, how can we make this better? Then they did. Now I can still go buy a $900 iPhone and I can buy the $1,300 iPhone. I bought the $1,300 iPhone because I want the three cameras. But I don’t need three cameras. So I’ll just get the 900. You can have your practice scheduled that way as well, or structured that way rather. Like, okay, you don’t want all those other modalities? Great. So then here’s an offering for you, this session with these things in it, this price, but if you want the extra things, you got to pay the extra money, otherwise we’re going to go broke. Then my biggest thing, like here I am, the passion police, you’re passionate about sharing your gifts with the world. You’re passionate about helping and healing the world, but yet you give up because you couldn’t get the business right and now, you’re driving Uber or you’re doing something like that and now you’re miserable.

(24:50):

That is like, for me, it breaks my heart because you have a gift and the world is waiting for it. And you may be the only healer that will have a breakthrough for certain patients because you might say to yourself, oh, there’s so many acupuncturists out there. Yeah, but they’re not you. I’m sorry. You have some secret sauce that will be the magic key for certain people. I can tell you, I am not the end all, be all. Thank God I’m not the end all, be all. Thank God anybody listening to this podcast is not the end all, be all. Can you imagine if you were the end all, be all for the entire 8 billion people on the planet? Woo. That sounds exhausting. I’m happy. So be happy that you’re not the end all, be all. Be happy that there’s a certain tribe looking for you and that’s it. You just go all out trying to match those people.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (25:38):

What recommendations do you have for helping people hold those boundaries in their practice, especially when they are making big changes, if they come up with a different price or a new service with add-ons or they’ve never charged for individual modalities? Because I do feel like the moment someone pushes back is when we’re immediately like, oh, maybe this was a terrible idea. How do we stick to those boundaries, especially if we are in solo practice? When I had a receptionist, it was always easier because I told her I need help with boundaries and she would be like, “No problem. I will make sure that everyone understands that such and such is non-negotiable.” So she was like a buffer. But a lot of us are just by ourselves in our office.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (26:28):

Yep, I love that. That’s a strategy I offer people. Put a buffer, put your prices on your website, so then they’re already, if they book with you, you don’t have to sit there and negotiate your prices. That shouldn’t even be in the space. So your website can be your buffer. You can print out your pricing and put it in a nice frame in your waiting area. You can say as of November 1st, these are my prices, and just put them there. Send an email and have that be the buffer. You can always cherry-pick your favorite patients and whisper in their ear, “I’ll keep you at the old rate.” You can do that. You can keep all your patients at your existing rate, but anybody new gets the new higher rate and at the end of the day, you are going to have to hold. You’re going to have to take that leap. Have faith.

(27:19):

I always tell people to hold for three weeks. That’s usually, 99% of the time, if you hold for three weeks, things will work. So I’ll give you an example. I had a client and he did acupuncture, this is going to hurt some of your hearts, he would go to people’s homes, he would set up a table, he would do acupuncture and massage. He was usually, he would usually work on them for 90 minutes minimum, but that whole visit was like two and a half hours. You can imagine carrying in all his stuff, setting up the tables, massage, acupuncture, talking, looking at their supplements in the closet, like all those things. Then he’d finally leave and he was charging $125 for it and he was ready to give up and I said, “Well, you got to double that price.” “I can’t double that price.” I’ll lose everybody. I said, “Good, lose them all. They’re butt holes for taking advantage of you.” And he was explaining, they were on La Jolla, “They have me outside with this ocean view on their La Jolla $10 million property.” I said, “Even more reason.”

(28:22):

So we didn’t even just double it. I said, “I want you to go to $275 for that session, and in six months I want it to be $350.” Now, this was about, this was pre pandemic, but the story still is relevant. So he did, and out of the three main regular clients, one was just appalled, “I can’t believe it, I can’t believe it,” and said, “I’m never coming back to you again.” Great. The other two said, it’s about time you raise your prices. Then he put the new prices out and he got three more patients at the new price. I believe it’s because of the perceived value. So I’m wealthy, I’m used to spending good money on good things. If something’s valuable, imagine if you’re looking for something and you see the same thing, but three prices, one’s low, one’s medium, one’s high, don’t you always go and look and say, why is this one so high? There must be some added value there, right? So if you price yourself too low, people think there’s something weird, either this person doesn’t have enough confidence, they don’t have enough experience, because If they did, they would charge for it. So by raising his prices, he positioned himself to be now more in line with his value and then he got more patience that way.

(29:33):

And it did take three weeks. He literally called me every day, “Oh my gosh, nobody’s booking. Oh my gosh.” I said, “Hold the line, hold the line. Nobody’s booking. I’m going to go broke. I’m going to live in my car. Then finally, by that third week, not only did he get one, but he got three new patients.” And this has been something consistent I’ve seen with people. It’s just you do it, you close your eyes and you say your prayers, you do your meditation, you have faith. If you hold to it, now, this is a, I want to put this in here right now because I feel very passionate about this, many people walk around wanting to manifest millions, law of attraction. I’m going to bring all these millions. I’m going to, I want to manifest millions of dollars. And God’s watching you saying you aren’t a good steward for the million dollars. If I gave you a million dollars, it would leak all out of you because you are a leaky ship.

(30:31):

So it’s about shoring up those boundaries and making sure that you’re not going to waste your gifts on people that don’t appreciate it. You never put pearls in front of swine, that’s in the Bible. So I’m not trying to get biblical or too spiritual. This is just something that I’ve seen with a lot of my clients. When you are ready and when you really look at the value of your services, it’s not about you, we all have self-worth issues, all of us. We all have imposter syndrome, self-worth, we feel weird charging so much. But when you look at the value of the services, because of you, people have babies, because of you, they prevent surgery. Because of you they save $10,000 on a, some sort of bad surgery or Botox, or cosmetic surgery or IVF or they don’t have to take pharmaceutical drugs that put them on the slippery slope of more pharmaceutical drugs.

(31:31):

That is so valuable and we’re afraid to charge 60 bucks. So what I find is the universe will usually start to bring you evidence that your prices are too low. The evidence is you’re burned out. The evidence is you feel resentful. At the end of a session, you feel resentful. You don’t feel joyful. You don’t feel like that was amazing. I love giving to these people. If you are feeling resentful or you’re not joyful, the prices are too low because there’s probably a price point where you’d think to yourself, oh, for 250 bucks, you bet I’ll rub their feet. But yet you’re rubbing their feet for 60. So it’s up to you to lead that and have that be a feel good exchange, once you do, guess what, you shore up those boundaries in terms of, like you said, Michelle, so beautifully, when you want to treat, where you want to treat, how, if you like treating two days a week from 9:00 to 2:00, that’s it. Very rarely do you go outside of that. You hold those boundaries. That’s when the universe will say, I like this person. They know what they’re, they have a clear container. I’m going to bring them more patience.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (32:42):

Yes, I love that idea, the universe recognizing that you’ve created and established a container for something specific, and then it gives you extra because as you said, now it knows that you can manage it and you’re not that leaky ship. I also find that whenever I recommend to my marketing clients that they raise their rates, it’s like this terrifying thing, but then most people, like the client that you were describing, people respond in a really positive way and they’re like, oh, finally, good for you. You’re raising your rates. If they sent out an email that says, starting in three weeks, the price is going up $10 for all treatments, people would literally hit reply and say, good for you, still too cheap. Your value is even more than this. I think that is, I’ve seen it quite a few times, but I think it’s such a shock if you haven’t raised your rates in a really long time. Maybe you raised them five or six years ago and you just forgot that that was the outcome, that it was okay and most people felt positive and supportive of you. So I know that in some of your programs you talk about helping people find their lighthouse, so I’m curious if you can share just a little bit about what that is and if it helps people be in alignment in their practice.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (34:02):

I love it. Wow, you did your homework. The lighthouse is what I do, what I keep repeating, which is where do you want to treat, when do you want to treat, how do you want to treat, with whom do you want to treat? What do you want to treat? It’s all the W’s, what, when, why, where, and sticking to it. Because lighthouses don’t move. Lighthouses don’t go like this, they don’t go, oh, there’s no boats, I’m going to move. No, the lighthouse stays there. The lighthouse, what it might do if no boats are coming is it might shine itself brighter so that these boats far out can see it. So how does that pertain to a practitioner? How can you shine your lighthouse brighter? Number one, get really clear on where you want to treat, what you want to treat, with whom you want to treat. So if you don’t like treating weekends, then you don’t, that’s part of a lighthouse. Like, my practice is open weekday. So there might be people that only want treatments during the week. Perfect. You already got that. It more pertains to, you could call it a specialty or what you love to treat. A lot of people are very uncomfortable with calling themselves specialists. Fine, don’t say it. How about this? Are you comfortable saying, I love treating fertility. I love helping women get pregnant. I love helping couples conceive and carry full-term and have babies, I love it all day long.

(35:33):

I didn’t say I specialize. Now, there’s also magic in what I just said. Did I say acupuncture in that? No. So the lighthouse is the outcome of somebody working with you. This is a huge booby trap or area where people stub their toe. They lead with acupuncture. They’re out in the world and they’re saying, I’m an acupuncturist and everyone’s like, ah, needles, ugh. So it doesn’t land well, when you have a strong lighthouse, let’s go back to fertility, I love helping women, couples conceive. In fact, this week I had five couples have positive pregnancy tests. I just love it. I love helping them conceive naturally. I also help them with IVF. If anybody hears me talking about that, let’s say I’m at lunch talking to my girlfriend and she’s like, “How’s work?” “Oh my gosh, I helped five women get pregnant naturally this week.” Anybody with a near distance, they’re going to come over to me, see how bright that lighthouse is and say, “I’m sorry to interrupt you, but I overheard you saying you help women get pregnant. I’m trying to get pregnant. Or my sister’s trying to get pregnant. Can I get your card?” I did not lead with acupuncture.

(36:46):

Here is PSA. People are still afraid of acupuncture. People are feel still afraid of needles. So I lead with the outcome. That’s your lighthouse. What do you do in the world? What is your gift? Your gift is in acupuncture. It’s not moxibustion, it’s not tuina, it’s not your herbs. It’s not. Your gift is the outcome that you lead people to. People come to you to solve a problem, eliminate pain, or achieve a dream. It’s that simple. They don’t really want to be educated. We have Google for that, and now AI. What they want is for you to fast track them. I feel like crap, fast-track me as fast as you can to feeling better. I can’t play golf, bet me playing golf. I can’t have children, get me plain children. I have these migraines, get rid of my migraines. My periods are all over the place, get me past that. I pee my pants because after I had my children, I can’t hold in my urine, get me past that. That’s your lighthouse. Your lighthouse is not acupuncture, Chinese medicine or whatever modality you’re using. The lighthouse and what you lead with, so your people looking for you can find you is the outcome. Does that make sense?

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (37:54):

Yeah, absolutely.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (37:56):

So, yeah, part of it once you get the Ws, the why, the what, the where, the how, it’s great. Now when I do my lighthouse workshops, and I have it digitized, if you go to my website, I actually have it digitized so you don’t have to wait for my next live one. Now I have it. It’s grandfather or evergreen, you can watch. I have all the coaching for the lighthouse. The easy part is setting the foundation. But then now what do I do with that? A lot of the lighthouse is how do you shine brighter and brighter and brighter so that for which you are seeking is also seeking, you can find you. So I talk a lot about that, super important

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (38:35):

I really think it’s strong marketing to start with the end in mind, like you’re describing and talk about the goals that people want to achieve. This really requires that people know their target market and their ideal patient so that they can ask themself, what is the outcome that my ideal patient really wants? And usually I’ll ask my marketing students, if they can dig into a layer that’s a little bit deeper than just, for example, oh, I want my pain to go away. Because, of course that’s everybody’s goal. But to ask yourself for this particular person, why do they want their pain to go away? What’s the next level? What is their pain holding them back from? How is it preventing them from being their best self or living the life that they really want and talk about that in your marketing because that connects with people so deeply and helps them feel seen and understood and then they think to themselves, wow, this person really gets me and they are more likely to take action.

(39:41):

And it’s really tough, I think, for people to leave acupuncture out of some of their marketing, but I do think that introduce acupuncture later on. So you’ve grabbed their attention by talking about the outcome that they want, have a baby or get out of pain and why they want that and then eventually, of course you’re going to have the opportunity to talk about how you will bring them to that place. So it’s not like we’re never speaking about acupuncture. But I agree with you, I think that really strong marketing starts with the outcome and doesn’t have to mention the modality in the beginning.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (40:18):

Yep. There is a time and place to lead with acupuncture as a lighthouse. Let’s say I’m at a health fair and there’s natural paths, there’s chiropractors, and so people are coming to find modality specifics. So if somebody, if you are in an area where people are looking for acupuncture, then you leave with that. That’s your lighthouse. I’m the acupuncturist here. I’ll give you a story. I had a girl that was working with me. This is another application of what we’re talking about. She specialized in sports medicine. What does that even mean? Okay, like that’s so many different perceptions and visuals like sports. Oh, soccer, football, baseball, weekend warriors, what is it? She said, oh yeah. I said, “What do you love to treat? What sport do you love to treat? If I bring you, if I brought you all the charger football players, would you feel ready?”

(41:09):

She goes, “Oh God no, I don’t know the first thing about football.” Now we’re getting somewhere. She said, “I love runners. I’m a runner. I hang out with runners.” I said, now we got something. I said to her, “What are the top three injuries that runners have?” “Oh, I can tell you right now, plantar fascitis, shin splints, and knee pain.” There you go. You just had, that’s three marketing pieces. Are you a runner that is getting shin splints? Come in, I’ll get rid of that. Are you a runner and you have plantar fascitis? Before you jump to surgeries or injections? Give me a try. You’re a runner with knee pain? Come on in. You want to finish that marathon? Let me help you. You’re injured? Want to prevent injury? Come and see me. I said, your positioning is you are the go-to runner’s acupuncturist, or natural physician or what have you.

(41:59):

But there, that’s the distinction right there, sports medicine versus runners. I love to help runners prevent injuries, treat injuries, finish their races all the many things. So that’s a lighthouse there. I had another girl who was like, I love women’s health. I’m like, oh really? Okay, do you want to treat teenagers with PMS? Oh god no. Okay, maybe you don’t love women’s health. What part of women’s health do you love? She said, I like the fourth stage or fourth act or third act or whatever it is. I love menopause. Then go straight to menopause. Don’t be greedy. Don’t try to get all of everything under women’s health unless you want to do all the women’s health. No, I just love menopause and fertility. Great. There you go.

(42:45):

I have people that love fertility and facial rejuve. Great, great. So then you lead with that. If you or anybody you know would love to look younger, naturally come see me. That’s a lighthouse statement. If you or anybody you know are thinking about getting pregnant now or in the next 12 months, come and see me. Now notice I said you or anybody you know. So when I’m sending out an email blast to my 500 or 5,000 people on my email list, somebody reads it, they’re like, I don’t want to get pregnant, but my cousin Jill does. I’m going to forward that to Jill. The invitation as well, is part of the lighthouse. It’s all the lighthouse, like if the lighthouse isn’t on, then you think, oh, maybe that lighthouse is closed. I better not go there because there’s not going to be somebody at that lighthouse to help me.

(43:34):

If your lighthouse isn’t on, here’s how you turn your lighthouse on. When you meet people in public, you have a warm welcome to come to your practice versus your arms are crossed, you throw a card at them and say, yeah, I’m an acupuncturist, here’s my card. That’s not warm. Instead, it’s like, oh, I’m a physician of Chinese medicine. I love helping women get pregnant. I love helping couples conceive. Oh, I’m trying to conceive. Well come in and see me. I would love to treat you. Get in my office. Is that salesy? Not at all. That is showing you that I absolutely love what I do. I want so much to do it to as many people and if that person says, no, it’s not, don’t take it personally. Maybe they need to process. Maybe they’re afraid of needles. It’s not about you, but what is, your work is to identify what your gift is and what you’re passionate about, marry those two. The gift that you have that you’re passionate about giving and you go all in.

(44:34):

People’s money is none of your business. It’s absolutely none of your business. Because I have so many clients that say, oh, they probably can’t afford it. Uh-huh, yeah, that Mercedes that they pulled up in tells me otherwise. We tell ourselves all these lies, all these stories, and at the end of the day 99% of them are lies. They’re not true. And even the 1% of that person that can’t afford it, you can create a container for your patients that can’t afford it. Maybe you offer them a discount rate or a semi-private option, like a community or something where they can pay less. But again, those are distractions. They’re taking you off your mission here on this planet. Your mission, you have a mission, everybody has a mission, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. You have something you’re meant to do here and what pulls us off the mission are these kinds of things like, “Oh, they can’t afford it. Oh, I feel so bad.” No, none of that’s true. That’s not your business otherwise, because how do you know that if you hold the line and you say, listen, if I continue to deliver my services at these low rates and be resentful and be burned out, then I can’t be a blessing on anybody.

(45:43):

That’s you bleeding, you’re leaking out. When you shore that up and you say, “Nope, I treat on these days, I go home at 3:30 and my price is this,” when you do this, guess what happens? God gives that person who said they had no money, an inheritance or an unexpected windfall. I have seen it over and over and over and over, but that can’t be orchestrated if you continue to bleed out. I love this saying, people will walk all over you and complain that you’re not flat enough. Think about that. Get really pissed off. Sometimes it takes that. I remember I had a patient who was like crying like she didn’t have any money, blah, blah, blah. So I would treat her for free. I would submit her insurance, her insurance was crap, it kept bouncing back, the insurance, I mean, it was like a hot mess.

(46:38):

The administration of this patient was awful and I noticed she always came in like really nice clothes and one day I walked her out to her car and she had this beautiful brand-new Lexus. Then she was leaving as I walked right to the car, getting in her beautiful brand-new Lexus. She was so, “Oh, I can’t come next week because I’m going to Fiji.” I was so pissed I was like, that’s it. Like, that’s it. I was so mad. I sent her an email and I said like, “I can’t keep doing the insurance for you. You pay me full price. You do your own insurance.” She came a few more times and then she stopped coming. So sometimes it, you need to just get really angry. That’s great, but use it. Don’t just take it. Don’t keep taking it.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (47:23):

I always like the phrase keep your hand out of your patient’s wallet. Like you said, I’ve had lots of people who, for example, will get, they’ll pay extra for cosmetic acupuncture, at the same time that they tell me they can’t afford their chiropractor. I’m like, you’re here paying $100 of treatment for cosmetic acupuncture twice a week and you can’t pay the copay to go see your chiropractor? Then I’m like, you know what, whatever.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (47:50):

No, I wouldn’t even, yeah, I wouldn’t even go there because that’s drawing you out of your energy state. That’s what I always talk about, like staying aligned, source the, God, whatever. Like, you just stay inside. It is easy. I’m not saying like I’m perfect. We all do it, we all do that thing. Like it’s our comparison, but it’s up to us. It’s our responsibility to bring ourselves back to center. When we catch our minds going over here and doing this, it’s about going back to center and just holding those containers, shoring up the boundaries so that you are a good steward for your gift. If you gave me a hundred bucks and then you saw me take that $100 and go buy drugs with it, I mean, let’s say bad, a lot of people are like, what’s wrong with that? That sounds fun. Okay, something bad. Like, you saw me doing something bad with that money, you would stop giving it to me.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (48:49):

Yeah.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (48:51):

Why wouldn’t we think that the universe is the same way? I’m going to give you all these patients, but that you let them walk all over you and so I’m going to stop giving you patience because I can’t stand seeing you suffer. Then you’re coming to coaches like you and me saying, I don’t know why I’m not getting more patients. I can tell you why you’re not getting more patients because you’re bleeding all over the place. Nobody, you got to shore things up. You got to create containers for these people. You don’t really know what you want. So spend the time, get it right, create containers, and then they’ll pour in. I promise you. When your lighthouse is clear inside and out, it will pour all over you. I mean, you’ll have more patience, more money, all of the things, but it takes work and it takes your work, it takes inner work.

(49:38):

But I love what you said that. Yeah, I tell my patient or my clients other people’s money is none of your business. And Rick Rubin is, if anybody’s listening, he’s a great weekend of rabbit holes. He’s an influencer that just talks about your gifts. He works a lot with musicians and artists and celebrities, but he reminds them, listen, it’s your gift. It doesn’t matter if nobody even likes your gift. Here’s an example of a lighthouse that keeps moving from shore to shore, “Oh, I’m not getting any likes. I’m going to move over here. Oh, I’m not getting a, I’m not getting enough of my facial rejuve clients. So I think I’m going to go over and start doing sports medicine that I don’t really want to, but I’m going to go over here. Oh, I’m not getting very many sports medicine. So now I’m going to go over here and I’m now I’m going to do women’s health.”

(50:20):

It’s like so confusing. Everyone’s like, tell me when you know what you’re doing. Just stick with one thing. So raise your price, stick three weeks. Choose a specialty, a lane or something you love to treat and give it six months. Don’t give up too soon. Create new structure to your practice and hold it for six months because it’s usually around that fifth or sixth month that it starts cooking, it starts really going, oh man, am I so glad I held the line on this. I’m selling programs. Notice I didn’t say package. That’s a whole other podcast between you and me. I’m not a package girl, but programs all day long. And because that’s a container and all the things, I know, I’m going all over, but I know we have limited time, so I’m just trying to fire-hose. Whoever’s listening to this and hoping it lands, hoping that I’m infecting you with permission to charge what your services and the outcome of those services are worth. IVF, people spend $100,000, $200,000. So if you say, listen, sit down, I’m going to do a session on you, four sessions on you, 12 sessions on you, it’s $8,000 and you’re going to increase your chances of conception exponentially, they’re going to pay it.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (51:41):

Yes. I feel like you pointed out how important it is to have clarity about what we want and boundaries, of course, again. I have one more question for you. What is your definition of success?

[EAST PHILLIPS] (51:57):

Ooh, feeling as though you are on your calling and it is an undeniable feeling and everybody has felt it from time to time. You can call it flow state on your path, living your passion, your purpose. We all know what that feels like. Sometimes it’s moments and sometimes those moments are extended. I feel like success is when you’ve identified what you’re good at, what you love to do, and then you offer that to the world. That’s success. I used to think success was money and it still is. I mean, money’s just the metric to give you feedback? That’s all it is. It’s just a mirror, but it’s really why are you here, and really getting curious about that, because every one of us matters. Even you. I’m not saying you, Michelle, like I’m saying you to the person listening because I genuinely with all my intention want whoever just heard me say you, it is you.

(53:04):

So you matter. If you think about a jigsaw puzzle, if one piece is missing, it’s like gammit you will lose sleep trying to find that piece. Well, that’s how the world and the universe works. If you’re missing, it’s like that missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. It’s just not complete. So everybody matters. Recognizing that, stepping into it and then finding that thing like, I love doing this and I’m fairly good at it and then exploring how you can offer that gift to the world. That to me is successful. I think the ultimate success is fulfilling your mission that you set out, God set out, your angel set out, I don’t know, your earth, tribe, whatever, whatever mission you had to come down here, whether it’s like learning your lessons or whatever. I follow. This is a way tangent. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t think that I would go here, Michelle, but I’m going to go here.

(54:02):

David Goggins, now he’s not for everybody, but I love this story and I’d like to end with this story. David Goggins tells this story. He’s a Navy Seal. He’s overcome a lot of adversity in his life and at one point in his life, he was like 300 pounds and he was spraying for cockroaches and that was his life and he thought, there’s got to be more for me. So he went out and he did a lot of discipline, a lot of hard work and became a Navy seal after trying three times to become a Navy seal. He never failed. It was just his first second and then third attempt, all these major things. He’s done ultra marathons, big, big huge things. Got the medal of honor, all these big things. But he talks about how he never wanted to imagine himself going to heaven and having God or whoever sits there with the clipboard, reviewing your life and saying, “Oh, David Goggins, you were supposed to be a Navy Seal and you were supposed to get the Medal of Honor, but oh, okay, you didn’t do those things.”

(54:56):

So that was his first inspiration. Like, okay, I’m going to be those things I was meant to be and then he goes, wait, “What if I go beyond that? What if I go to heaven and God or whoever has the clipboard goes, holy cow, we didn’t see that coming. David Goggins, we didn’t even see, what you did, even like outdid our expectations of you. Like you went beyond what our biggest expectations with you.” That’s what motivates me. I think that’s success. It’s like saying I was given a life and I’m going to maximize it. And I am not here to say it’s easy. I’ve had my share of hardships in my life. We’re here on a planet with billions of people for a reason. You got to find the people that can help and support you, whether it’s coaches for your business, whether it’s whatever it is, whether it’s this podcast. So I love that story and I want to make sure that you are acknowledged, you, Michelle, this is now you for doing this because you are showing up.

(55:58):

Your podcast, this one, other ones that you’ve produced have helped somebody, many people in ways you probably don’t even know. because People don’t often come back and tell us the good stuff. They just want to go on social media and troll. I was like, oh, I don’t like your hair in that photo. But oh, too bad. They don’t like, not all of them sometimes, but I just, I want to acknowledge you on this public platform for showing up because think about the people that have influenced you. I think about the people that have influenced me, Louise Hay, Tony Roberts, David Goggins, what if those people didn’t show up that day? They didn’t feel like showing up. They didn’t feel like doing their podcast. They didn’t feel like doing those things. That goes back to the lighthouse, the people that are looking for you you’re looking for them. So it’s all about just going out there, showing up, delivering and having faith. You might not get that feedback all the time, but you just keep staying the course and you do it anyway.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (56:55):

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (56:59):

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I would keep talking, but I have a webinar in 10 minutes.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (57:04):

Perfect, that’s okay.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (57:05):

It just has been awesome. This has been so awesome.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (57:07):

Yeah, it really, really has. Can you tell us where we can find you on social media Online?

[EAST PHILLIPS] (57:14):

Yep, this is a perfect circle back when you said, what do we call you? doctoreast.com. D-O-C-T-O-R-E-A-S-T.com is where I am housed at the moment. You can find me, what I’m up to, I have coaching programs, I have events, I have one-on-one sessions, my things are there. If you’re listening, I’d love for you to sign up to get my newsletter because I often send different events or opportunities in my newsletter. I share a lot of resources and I do, like right now, in 10 minutes I’m going to do a free lunch and learn. So I will do two free lunch and learns every month. I just give, give, give, pour out. Then social media, Facebook, I think I’m East Herod and Phillips, Instagram, I’m Doctor East and I have a YouTube, Doctor East. You can find me on there.

(58:06):

All of those things are going to be growing in the next few months. So if you want to subscribe to my YouTube channel, I’ve been starting to do some shorts, but I have what’s called Doctor East in Your Pocket. So like some of the stuff that we’re talking about here and much, much more for you to uplevel your life and your frequency and your vibration will be part of that I guess lane within my YouTube channel. So thanks for asking and I would genuinely love to connect with anybody that’s listening. So come on and connect. And guess what, you can opt out at any time.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (58:37):

Well, perfect. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

[EAST PHILLIPS] (58:41):

Thank you so much, Michelle. Thanks for having me. This has been awesome

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (58:45):

As always, thanks so much for being here with me today. Just a quick reminder that the sale for acupuncture marketing school and the opportunity to save $200 and get a free one-on-one marketing strategy session with me expires on November 6th, Monday at midnight. The link to the class is in the show notes, and please feel free to send me any questions that you have at michelle@michellegrasek.com. I always love to hear from you. Enjoy the rest of your week, my friend. Take care.