Portrait of the founder of Acupuncture Media Works and Acu Downloads, Jeffrey Grossman, with the text, Episode #74: Graphic Design, Content Creation, and Overcoming Fear of Marketing with Jeffrey Grossman.

This week on the podcast I’m speaking with the founder of Acupuncture Media Works, Jeffrey Grossman.

Jeffrey first started creating content 20 years ago, long before it was trendy or a household phrase. You’re probably familiar with Acupuncture Media Works, which began by providing print marketing materials for your acupuncture practice.

Since then, they’ve evolved into a giant in the digital content space with Acu Downloads, a monthly content subscription offering over 1,200 pieces of acupuncture-specific content to choose from. This includes newsletter content, social media posts, presentations, patient handouts and more.

It’s an incredible library that has been curated and updated over the past ten years, and Jeffrey shares the journey to how he and his team arrived at this unique and helpful space in the acupuncture industry.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • Why multi-channel marketing is effective and what this means
  • Embracing marketing as a means of reaching more patients and making a positive impact in our communities
  • The evolution of graphic design and how it’s easier than ever to create professional-looking content
  • The importance and cost-effectiveness of email marketing
  • How to release fears that you’re annoying your subscribers every time you send an email
  • The importance of asking for help with your marketing when you need it

🎙️ Listen to Episode #74: Graphic Design, Creating Content, and Overcoming Fear of Marketing with Jeffrey Grossman

Show Notes:

💙 This episode is sponsored by ​Jane,​ the HIPAA-compliant all-in-one practice management software.

Your time is valuable. Jane has designed Online Intake Forms to reduce admin work so you can take back your treatment time.

Whether you need to collect insurance information, health history, or consents, Jane’s Online Intake Forms offer a safe and secure way to gather everything before your patients walk through the door.

You can also collect payment details securely through your intake form, via Jane’s PCI-compliant payment solution, saving time at checkout.

To learn more about how Jane’s intake forms can help, head to ​jane.app/guide​ to book a 1-on-1 demo with a member of their team. If you’re ready to get started, use the code ACUSCHOOL1MO at sign-up to get a 1-month grace period applied to your new account.

Subscribe to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

 💖 Love the podcast? Help other acupuncturists find the podcast by leaving a review here.

Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:05):

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:35):

Hello there. Welcome back. Today I’m speaking with the founder of Acupuncture Media Works, Jeffrey Grossman. Jeffrey first started creating content 20 years ago, way before it was trendy, or a household phrase. You’ll probably be familiar with Acupuncture Media Works, which began by providing print materials for your acupuncture practice and since then, they have evolved into a giant in the digital content space with Acu Downloads, a monthly content subscription offering over a thousand pieces of acupuncture specific content to choose from. So we talk about Acu Downloads a bit today. In this interview, we also talk about the evolution of graphic design and how it’s easier than ever to create professional looking content, the idea that acupuncture is worth overcoming our fears of marketing, to have an impact on more patients in our communities, the necessity and cost-effectiveness of email marketing, the importance of asking for help with your marketing when you need it, an interesting take on why so many chiropractors seem successful in business, the benefits of coaching and accountability, and building and scaling a practice, and much more. I hope you enjoy this episode with Jeffrey.

[JANE.APP] (01:48):

This episode is sponsored by Jane, an all-in-one practice management software. The team at Jane recognizes how hard you work to support your patients, and they aim to do the same for you. That’s why Jane offers unlimited phone, email, and live chat support with every subscription. I recommend booking a personalized one-on-one demo with a member of their team. It’s a great way to make sure Jane will be the right fit for you and for your practice, and to see Jane’s features in action. And Jane even offers a free data import, an account setup consultation, and online training tools to help set you up for success. And this is one of the things that really sold me on Jane, that I would not have to import the data myself from my old EHR into Jane. To get started, head over to Jane. App/start. Their team would love to connect with you to see how Jane could help you in your practice. And you can use the code [ACUSCHOOL1MO] at the time of sign up for a one-month grace period applied to your new account. And I will put the links and the code in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[MICHELLE] (02:56):

All right, let’s get into this episode with Jeffrey. Hi, Jeffrey, how are you?

[JEFFREY GROSSMAN] (03:02):

I’m doing well, Michelle. How are you doing?

[MICHELLE] (03:05):

I’m doing well. Thank you so much for being here today. It’s really nice to talk with you again. We have chatted a few times over the years. You have been creating content for 22 years, is that right?

[JEFFREY] (03:18):

Yes, pretty much. We’ve been in this industry building content for since 2002.

[MICHELLE] (03:25):

I absolutely love that because that is way before it was cool. But before we go too deep, I will let you introduce yourself for the audience.

[JEFFREY] (03:34):

Okay, great. Well, thank you for having me here. I’ve been in this industry since 2002. My background is that of a graphic designer and marketing person before I became an acupuncturist. So really brief story is that when I started my practice, I was a little bit of a snob when it came to the marketing materials. And back in the day, there weren’t many tools that appealed to my visual senses as well as my vocabulary that, of what I wanted to communicate to my patients. So there was just really one set of brochures that were out there, and I did not like them at all so I set up to build my own, make my own, and I literally sat in coffee shops for days on end and built my brochures from that. Other acupuncturists were like, “What are you doing? I love those. Where’d you get those?” And from that started the company called Acupuncture Media Works. From that, it just translated into other things that we’ll probably talk about touch on today.

[MICHELLE] (04:49):

Absolutely. And I had no idea that you were a graphic designer and in marketing to begin with before acupuncture.

[JEFFREY] (04:56):

Oh, yeah. Before that, before I was even into graphic design and marketing, I was really into herbal medicine and Native American philosophies and ideas and concepts. And then I had sort of my epiphany story, which is I woke up in pain and basically the short of it is my doctor said, take these pills, come back in two weeks. And then a buddy of mine gave me a booklet on acupuncture and all the things, and it just really clicked. And I went to see the acupuncturist and my back pain alleviated within like two treatments. Yeah, so it sent me on this quest to become an acupuncturist because I wasn’t really interested in doing graphic design anymore. Even though I was right there when that first Mac computer came out, and like before that we were using X Exacto knives and tape and waxing the stuff and we were like, no, computers are not going, there’s no way it’s going to take over my job.

[MICHELLE] (05:56):

That is amazing. And now we have Canva where you can design pretty much anything for free on the internet. It is wild. We’ve come a long way.

[JEFFREY] (06:07):

Absolutely. Crazy, crazy. And beyond that, we have AI, which can write everything for you too.

[MICHELLE] (06:14):

Yes, yes, and sometimes even design an image for you.

[JEFFREY] (06:18):

Yeah, it can absolutely do that too. It’s definitely, I don’t know if you’ve, I’m sure you’ve delved into it, but some of the technology is still sort of not working well with the images and text as they just write really random things, or letters that don’t, aren’t letters.

[MICHELLE] (06:37):

Yeah, it’s definitely in a foreign language. I think I’ve mentioned this on the podcast before, but I really enjoy playing around with AI for images to make cat stickers. I don’t even remember what podcast I was listening to. They were like giving suggestions for just like fun things to learn AI, like mess around with it and it took me at least two hours to fully understand it is never going to put words on these stickers. It is always going to be gibberish. And finally, I googled it and I was like, can AI do letters on images or words? And it was like, no, absolutely not. I’m like, okay, noted.

[JEFFREY] (07:19):

Yeah, at least not this version, but when it comes out, the next version, who knows, I’m sure. But it’s amazing and it’s frightening and it’s also beautiful in what AI can offer, and chatGPT mean. I honestly use it often for emails, for writing content, for ideas, even if I have a meeting and just to kind of brainstorm and organize myself around that. I’m actually starting my practice, another practice up here and I just wanted to have it put together a thorough list of all the things I need to start a practice. And it just gave me this massive list and it’s just amazing. It’s our hardest working employee.

[MICHELLE] (08:03):

Yes, for sure. Well, someone told me recently, if AI makes anyone nervous, it helps to think about it as a very smart and hardworking assistant. Think of it as a person like you can give it instructions, but you should give it specific instructions and it’s not like you using chatGPT to brainstorm is going to contribute to it taking over the world in like a dystopian future. And I was like, oh, what a nice way to think about it. It’s chatGPT is is like a really helpful receptionist. There’s someone with some free time in your office who can help you do tasks.

[JEFFREY] (08:43):

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And I actually feel bad when I say, no, no, no. Sorry, redo this again and give me a new version. And then I have to remind myself that I’m talking to a computer

[MICHELLE] (08:55):

Sometimes if I am on like a, if I make a phone call and you’ve got the automated voice message and it will be like, tell me what you need, like, use your voice and tell me what you’re calling for, sometimes I’ll still say, please. If AI ever takes over the world, it’s going to remember that I said, please.

[JEFFREY] (09:14):

Absolutely. You are on the good list. Yeah, I do say thank you, thank you for doing that. That was amazing. I give it kudos as well.

[MICHELLE] (09:24):

I do enjoy using AI to brainstorm content ideas as well as to make outlines for content. I think that that has been super helpful outside of the cat stickers. I think it has a lot of real-life applications. Did you say that you are reopening your practice?

[JEFFREY] (09:42):

I am, yeah.

[MICHELLE] (09:43):

Very exciting. Nice.

[JEFFREY] (09:44):

Yeah, I’m really excited about that. I took a little bit of a hiatus and really focused on more of the media, more of the digital downloads and I’m excited and also nervous, mostly nervous because making sure that I’ve got my diagnostics still on board and my skillset. I feel like I’ll be fine with my personal interactions with patients. I feel really confident there. But the pulse is.

[MICHELLE] (10:12):

Oh, the pulse is always.

[JEFFREY] (10:15):

I pulled this out, the Lakeside Masters study of the Pulse. It’s all tattered and ripped up and I just review it often.

[MICHELLE] (10:24):

I’ll have to include a link for that book in the show notes because I think people will be really interested. Pulse is something that I think of as never truly mastering. It’s one of those things where you’re learning for your whole career, for your whole life.

[JEFFREY] (10:40):

Oh yeah. But yeah, I’m excited. I’m really excited to get back out there because I know this medicine changes lives and I’m excited to get out there and help inform and inspire the public on these other alternatives to getting well and staying healthy.

[MICHELLE] (10:56):

I think that seems to be a thread for you throughout Acupuncture Media Works and your whole career, is that you’re really trying to help inform the public about all the things that acupuncture can do. And it’s so much more than just pain management.

[JEFFREY] (11:10):

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I really think is important is, and what I would love to see is that us as a profession, band together and start spreading this message of good health through acupuncture, but beyond just treating pain. And one of the things I encourage my coaching clients to do is to ask their patients what else they know that acupuncture is beneficial for. Not many people understand that it’s good for immune health or the common cold or PMS or fibromyalgia. And I feel like us as practitioners, it’s part of our job, so to speak, to inform and encourage and increase that awareness of these far-reaching benefits that acupuncture has to offer as opposed to just treating pain.

[MICHELLE] (12:09):

I find that a lot of patients only have an awareness of acupuncture, being able to treat whatever it is that they are there for. So if they’re getting treated for headaches, that’s what they know. And then you send an email newsletter that says, acupuncture’s great for knee pain and the next time they come in and they’re like, I had no idea that acupuncture could treat knee pain. But that’s that obligation to tell them, to teach them so they can tell other people.

[JEFFREY] (12:36):

100%. And what I would suggest that practitioners do is each week or even each month, come up with a new topic that you can start encouraging and creating this awareness around in the clinic. Get a whiteboard, put up a whiteboard and says, did you know that acupuncture is good for blah, blah, blah? Or it’s springtime and how’s your liver chi? I’m all about patient education. I created Acupuncture Media Works based around the idea that educated patients are more empowered. They stay in care longer. They refer more people because they understand what’s going on with them and they tend to listen to you with regards to your suggestions around your treatment plans and your care because you’ve educated them. You know, you’ve informed them, you’ve inspired them. And it all starts Michelle, with that first visit.

[MICHELLE] (13:30):

Yes.

[JEFFREY] (13:30):

That first visit and that report of findings. When I was teaching the practice management classes here at Middle Way, I really encouraged my students to create a protocol to do for the first 12 visits. What kinds of things can you, will you, do you want to inform and educate your patients on during the first 12 visits? Because each of those are like touchpoints. Every visit should be a touch point and a teaching opportunity. You don’t have to go deep inch of all sorts of crazy stuff. Even just asking that question, “Hey Michelle, did you know that acupuncture is good for elbow pain?” Or whatever it is. And then, like you said, people are like, oh, I didn’t know it’s good for knee pain when they see that newsletter pop in their inbox.

[MICHELLE] (14:17):

So originally as you said, Acupuncture Media Works began with you creating this brochure because I mean, that’s the entrepreneurial spirit, I think is saying the thing on the market, I could do it better. That’s part of the entrepreneurial spirit is knowing in your heart that you could take a different angle and produce something even more beautiful. So you started with brochures and you were in print, physical print items for a long time. When did you start introducing graphic design and online content into what you were producing?

[JEFFREY] (14:53):

Well, we still do print. We still offer print. And then I think in 2014, we actually started our first version of Acu Downloads, Acu Downloads V1. And that was basically every month we would put together a campaign for you, a digital campaign where you would download newsletters, social media, graphics, all the things. And then we actually revamped it about two years ago, the 2.0 version, because back in the 1.0 version, you only had access to what we gave you. Here it is, there’s like a set number of tools, that’s what you get. And then that’s all you have access to that and then everything else that you had available before that. But now in this new version, you have access to a complete database and a library of all the things that you want so you have, if you’re on the treatment table and a patient has back pain, you can go to Acu Downloads.

(15:52):

You could type in back pain and you can print out a self-care hand sheet to go home with them. Or if they have allergies, you could print out a self-care hand sheet to go home with them and highlight some things on there, on things to do and things not to do. So we started Acupuncture Media Works in 2002. We had, and have a ton of content from that and the original Acu Downloads from 2014. So we revamped it, retooled the system, and now it’s sort of like a, I think there’s like 1200 different tools in there that you can access from, I don’t know if you need a PowerPoint. I mean, literally I just built and uploaded a PowerPoint for somebody who was doing a talk. So we just added it for them. That’s one of the cool things about it too, which a lot of people don’t know, is that if you’re a member of Acu Downloads and there are tools that you need, then reach out to us.

(16:46):

If it’s in our wheelhouse, we’ll build it for you. No cost and put it up there. You can have it available. No problem. There’s one acupuncturist in New York who’s like, I’m working with children and women and I’m doing a health fair. The issue was actually, the truth is, she placed an order for us, but she gave us the wrong shipping address and the order for the printed materials didn’t get to her in time and she was doing a health fair. So she called us up, she’s like, “Oh my God, where’s my brochure for the health fair? I’m doing a health fair and there’s going to be children and women there.” And I’m like, okay. We researched it, we found out where the error were was, and I’m like, “Let’s do this. I will talk with my team. We’ll put together some content for you. And we build it in Canva so people can have it available for them to edit and change and brand for themselves. We literally built two flyers for her on women’s health and acupuncture and children’s health and acupuncture because Those were the brochures that she ordered, but didn’t get to her in time and put them up in Acu Downloads and she’s got access to them and she is happy as a clam

[MICHELLE] (17:56):

That is customer service, at its best.

[JEFFREY] (18:01):

Yeah. I love that. I love talking to practitioners on the phone.

[MICHELLE] (18:05):

And so does that mean that anybody who is signed up for the Acu Download subscription can also access those things that you created for specific people?

[JEFFREY] (18:16):

Oh yeah, absolutely. So that’s one of the things, yeah, Janelle called us up. She’s like, oh my God, she was stressing out and we built those for her. We gave them to her and then we also added them up in Acu Downloads too. So that’s the beautiful thing about having a team that can knock it out for you, if you were to go out and do this yourself, it’d probably be few hundred bucks because you know you need it by tomorrow. You need to a design and a writer and an editor and all that, whereas it’s $47 for Acu Downloads. I feel like it’s a pretty solid offering for the profession.

[MICHELLE] (18:55):

Absolutely. So the structure is, and you can correct me, so it’s $47 a month and people can download 20 items a month, is that right? But they have access to something like, I think you said 1200 different designs products online. So they have a ton of things to choose from, it just sort of depends on what kind of content do they need this month and they can download 20 pieces?

[JEFFREY] (19:22):

Yep, exactly. Yeah, that’s exactly it. So whatever you need, when you need it, you just go there, you download it. Several of the items come personalized with your clinic name and information on it. We’ve got a tool set up in there called the personalized tool, which will imprint your information or a call-to-action on the newsletters, the help sheets, the research updates, and the clinic forms. We’re working through the backlog, but moving forward, everything that we’re building is in Canvas. So you can access the materials and edit them and brand them for what however you want.

[MICHELLE] (19:59):

Gotcha. Okay, that was going to be my next question was if the templates were available in Canva, because I love Canva. Oh my gosh, I just, I think it’s amazing. Once you learn how to use it, and I don’t think it’s hard to use at all, but it’s just so easy to do a couple clicks and personalize something. And then, so for anyone who’s not familiar with Canva, you can download whatever design you printed, like a flyer or a brochure, and then you can either print it on your own computer, you could send it to Staples and have it printed, or you can, you could have it printed directly through Canva. Do you do printing? Can they have it printed through Acupuncture Media works as well?

[JEFFREY] (20:39):

That’s actually something we are working on. We should probably have that initiated in the next couple of months. But we are working towards print on demand.

[MICHELLE] (20:48):

Very nice.

[JEFFREY] (20:49):

So we’re definitely working on that, trying to figure out the, all the details on that, whether we’re going local printing, whether we’re doing other printers. So we’re actually literally in the process of that. Canva is super intuitive and I think it’s an amazing product to have, to work with. I think every practitioner should have access to it. It’s just a matter of whether or not you got the time to do it.

[MICHELLE] (21:11):

Yes, I always tell people to think about when they’re creating their marketing, is the amount of time that they would need to do it and have it be at a professional level, is that going to really be outrageous? If you don’t like graphic design, for example, and it takes you nine hours to create a brochure, is that worth the cost of paying someone else who is a professional and can create it for you? Because they do this all the time. They can create it for you in like 45 minutes. You’re weighing your time and your money and deciding like what is really worth it for me? And also considering frustration level sometimes plays a role in graphic design for people who are new to it or don’t enjoy it and so sometimes I think the answer really is to purchase templates like this.

[JEFFREY] (22:04):

Yeah, I think the other level is technologically inclined or maybe shall we say, declined. A lot of practitioners I speak with, they’re just not wired for that technology. I mean, seriously, my wife, she’s a body worker. I think she breaks every computer energetically that she works on. Her computers just are so slow. They take forever to work. She’s on her third computer up there. We’re just like, sweetie, you’re, you got to just hone your energy down or not work on a computer. But basically she’s just not technologically inclined to figure that out to really work those materials on her own. And like you said, I think the important piece is to figure out what a practitioner’s worth is per hour. So like if you spend an hour working on a patient, maybe you make 150 bucks versus paying somebody $47 or 50 bucks to build it for you. What’s your time worth versus hiring somebody or working with a service that can do it for you.

[MICHELLE] (23:09):

And always considering too that people who are professionals at whatever it might be, we’re talking about graphic design, but it could be building out a website, something like that, they are doing this every day, and so they are very efficient. So if it takes you five hours to do something again, it could maybe only take them 30 minutes. So just considering so many different factors.

[JEFFREY] (23:34):

Yep, absolutely. When Janelle wanted these flyers, I think we, I spoke to her in the morning and by that afternoon we had them done for her for first proof. I mean, that’s pretty amazing.

[MICHELLE] (23:45):

That is incredible.

[JEFFREY] (23:48):

Because we knew she needed them in two days and I wanted to make good on the address error. So it’s just like, let’s do it up, make it happen.

[MICHELLE] (23:57):

So do you feel like there is a particular kind of content that seems to be working really well right now? Or do you recommend a multi-channel approach?

[JEFFREY] (24:08):

That’s a good question. And I think it really is the multi-channel approach, because social media isn’t going to give you an influx of patients that are going to book your schedule. Like many people think, they’re like, oh, if I do social media, I’m going to be full and that’s all I need to do. But there’s this idea that people need to see, the marketing, your message multiple times in different places in order for it to resonate with them. I am a huge proponent of email marketing.

[MICHELLE] (24:43):

Me too.

[JEFFREY] (24:44):

I think emails are one of the best approaches towards getting in front of your patients and your potential patients and many practitioners really shy away from that idea. I encourage my clients to at least mail once a week and if you’re putting out content that’s inspiring and encouraging and full of some tips and cool content, then why wouldn’t they want to receive it? We’re getting into springtime, why wouldn’t you have some tips on seasonal allergies and herbs with that, or acupressure points or like whatever it is on a seasonal basis. And just to really inspire and encourage people and make them go, wow, I didn’t know that acupuncture can help with this or that. One of the great things about emails is that you wind up in their inbox and they can be forwarded and it’s practically free. Like with MailChimp, I think it’s like the baseline, is like 20 bucks a month for MailChimp.

[MICHELLE] (25:50):

The ROI on emails I think is something outrageous. It’s like, oh gosh, I wish I had the stats, but like 3800%.

[JEFFREY] (25:59):

That’s amazing.

[MICHELLE] (26:00):

Yes, compared to maybe 200% for social media. And I definitely agree with you. I think email marketing is the way to go. I always encourage people to send at least two emails a month. And sometimes it’s hard to convince them because people tend to be really afraid of annoying their subscribers, but people signed up to your email list for a reason. They’re actually waiting to hear something from you. They were hoping to learn about Chinese medicine or learn about events at your clinic, maybe learn more about you as a provider. So I always tell people to bite the bullet and send the email and just see what happens. Because people are always going to unsubscribe. Every time you send an email, someone will unsubscribe and once you accept that that is totally normal, then you can sort of move forward and say, okay, but what else happened? Oh, I got a patient because I sent this email and it reminded them that I exist, that the clinic is waiting to help them.

[JEFFREY] (27:06):

Right, and I think that’s a big thing that a lot of practitioners really don’t think about is to stay on top-of-mind awareness with their patient. And one of the easiest ways to do that is with email. And like I said earlier, like if you’re putting out content that’s encouraging and inspiring and creative content with tips and ideas and maybe even parables about herbs or something, then I think that your patients will appreciate that. And one of the things that’s really important too, whenever you send out an email, and you know this, Michelle, there always needs to be a call-to-action, like a next step. Like what do you want that person to do after they read that email? Do you want them to forward it to a friend? Do you want them to pick up the phone? Do you want them to download this thing? Do you want them to click on this link? Or whatever that is. And that’s an important piece because sending out content is amazing. Great, you’re doing good work, but then you ultimately on the back end, you want to motivate them to come in.

[MICHELLE] (28:10):

And I also think the call-to-action is one of the hardest parts about marketing for a lot of, not just acupuncturists, but wellness providers in general, because that’s sort of where the rubber meets the road and we’re actually asking people to do something. But if you don’t include a call-to-action, then you’re really just creating content for the sake of creating content. And we don’t, nobody’s got time for that. So you have to tell them what it is you want them to do, and that’s your call-to-action.

[JEFFREY] (28:41):

Yeah, absolutely. That’s with anything, a call-to-action is goes with any of your marketing. Like if you do a health fair or you do a talk or you’re in a BNI group, you always need something to motivate people from that external world back into your clinic. Calls-to-action are the bottom line for what you want them to do next. And like I said, it could be just schedule or call or anything.

[MICHELLE] (29:12):

And so you must offer email content inside the Acu Downloads?

[JEFFREY] (29:19):

We do actually. What’s really cool is we actually have a one-click MailChimp templates. So for those practitioners who do MailChimp, we have it set up where you just click a link and it will automatically add a designed and written template with images and everything into your MailChimp account, which is super cool.

[MICHELLE] (29:43):

Cool. Because I do know that one of the things that holds people back from publishing multiple email newsletters a month is having to design it. It’s one thing to create the content, but it’s another thing to arrange it so it looks nice and find photos that match the content of the articles. That’s like, it’s like we’re living in the Jetsons when I was growing up, I would watch The Jetsons, and they’re in the future living on, in outer space and I sort of feel like we have arrived. The technology that we have, there’s so many things to make life streamlined and easy. We’re very lucky it blows my mind.

[JEFFREY] (30:25):

Absolutely. I agree. If any of the practitioners get anything from your podcast, it should be the fact that marketing is something that they really need to embrace and they don’t need to embrace it alone. There are solutions. There’s your school, there’s Acu Downloads, there’s coaches, there’s things and people and software available to really help streamline their efforts to do that. And the biggest thing though is really understanding that you actually have to market your practice. I remember getting out of school and hanging my shingle and hoping for like my practice and my schedule to fill up. And I wound up running three clinics, not because I was Uber successful back in the day, but because I needed to make some money. So I was working at this location and in that location, and then that location in order to really make ends meet.

(31:17):

I actually literally took a $15,000 gamble back in the day. And I started working with a coach who only coached chiropractors, called Five Star Management, Dr. Lloyd from Five Star Management. I was the first acupuncturist he ever worked with and he gave me a deal. Normally it was like 18k, but he gave me a deal and he only charged me 15K. And this was like, I don’t know, this was probably like 2007 or something I don’t know, 15K was a lot of money. So I had to like, borrow the money and save and sell things, and I worked with him, but it really transformed the trajectory of my practice in so many great ways. And I would have paid more than that knowing what I know today earlier if I would’ve started with him.

[MICHELLE] (32:13):

And I think that’s a really beautiful point that you never have to be alone in marketing and scaling your practice. There are so many resources, I mean, as we’ve been saying, especially with the advent of the internet and how connected we are. You can find someone at your price point who can help you and give you genuine advice. Or you can use software or there’s so many options. But if people feel really stuck, I do hope they remember that they do need to market their practices, but they do not need to do it by themselves.

[JEFFREY] (32:48):

Absolutely. And one of the things I really try to get across to my students when they’re in class at the practice management is that we got to wear two hats. School does such an amazing job at training you to be an amazing diagnostician, needler herbalist, whatever that is. School does a great job of that. It falls short on really preparing you for what you really need, which is business and marketing savvy. Because you could be the best diagnostician wearing that acupuncture healer hat, but then you don’t know how to get the people in or properly communicate to them anyway as well or even how to keep them in care once they fall out of care or even get them back. There are all these things that are so important that I didn’t know, I wasn’t taught this.

[JEFFREY] (33:37):

I think our marketing and business class was just like a long weekend, like a Friday through a Monday, that’s all it was. And here at Middle Way, I don’t teach the practice management class anymore, but what, it was a 65-hour practice management call course. That was amazing. That was amazing. Really, the business and the marketing aspect, I feel like is a huge part of needing to embrace. And I think there’s even something, I think some schools even there, there’s something, I don’t know what it is, maybe you know this Michelle, but there’s something that schools have to prove that their students are successful after a period of time in order to maintain some level of licensing. Do you know what I’m talking about?

[MICHELLE] (34:28):

I know what you’re talking about. I don’t know what it’s called, but I know that there are several schools that have been closed in the past, we’ll say five-ish years because they had aggregated enough data from their students to show that their students could not repay their student loans. And I don’t know if that’s like a federal thing or if that is acupuncture school specific or trade school specific, but yeah, they were not allowed to continue. And I kind of thought when that started happening that more of the schools who are still in existence would implement more intense marketing and practice management, basically, like actual business training. And I am outside of the acupuncture school universe right now, so I’m not sure, but it doesn’t, doesn’t seem like a whole lot has changed. Not in an impactful way.

[JEFFREY] (35:22):

Right. Well, the way I think of it is people are, like, people have asked me why are chiropractors so successful, successful at acupuncturist art? My feeling on some levels are like, well, acupuncturists are dealing with ethereal energies and chi, just amorphic energies. Chiropractors are really dealing with stability and bones and structure. So I feel like they are kind of rooted on some levels in this. My cousin’s a chiropractor since day one. He was rocking it and he was kicking some serious butt when he got out of school. And he was the one who introduced me to Dr. Lloyd because he started, he had that mindset, his school prepared him, his school introduced him to Dr. Lloyd and all that and that idea that working with a coach, working with someone who’s been where you are is an important part of this growth, and to embrace it. I’m sorry to say, and you probably know this, most acupuncturists probably just, they run the other way when business and marketing is even mentioned.

[MICHELLE] (36:26):

Heartbreaking.

[JEFFREY] (36:26):

Like really, it is, because I mean, the medicine changes lives? You’re in the clinic, you’ve seen it and I’m sure those acupuncturists who are listening to this right now, hopefully you can shake your head saying, yes, I’ve seen lives change. So why hide that message? Why hide behind the fear of the idea of marketing when you can embrace the idea that acupuncture changes lives and you can be a beacon in your community to introduce people to this alternative way that’s safe, natural, and effective. When you embrace that, you should just be like, yeah, I’m going to, like, that’s me. I’m going to change my community and support them in a beautiful way, which you can if this medicine,

[MICHELLE] (37:20):

I definitely agree. I’m always asking my marketing clients and my marketing students to think about their marketing from that exact perspective. That if you don’t commit to talking about acupuncture, teaching about it and being willing to be visible, then there are people in your community who will suffer because they just don’t know you’re there. And that’s such a tragedy. You could be around the corner and someone with severe pain just, they could be open to acupuncture, but have no idea that you are there as an opportunity to support them. I know it’s scary. And whenever I say get visible in the community, that’s sort of where people are like, ugh, prepare to run and hide. You can start so small. It could be very gentle entry into that visibility and you can grow and get more comfortable with it, but you do, you just have to begin, dip your toe in the water and begin.

[JEFFREY] (38:19):

And if you’re not doing that, someone else is going to be getting those patients.

[MICHELLE] (38:24):

Ooh, it’s so true.

[JEFFREY] (38:27):

And it might be that maybe they’re going to go through surgery or wind up taking medication or opioids as opposed to having something that not only addresses their physical and emotional ailments, but it can potentially be life changing for them.

[MICHELLE] (38:46):

Yeah, definitely altering the trajectory of their life for sure.

[JEFFREY] (38:50):

Absolutely. And I mean, that’s what’s so amazing about this medicine is that it literally changes lives and it’s so beautiful like that. So again, why hide behind that, that that idea that marketing is scary when you can embrace the idea that screw it, marketing is scary, but you know what? People need me. People need this message that acupuncture can help them. And I think once we kind of can embrace that and shift that perspective, and that was actually a big mind shift for me when I started marketing my practice. Because I would go to health fairs and I’d stand there and be like, “Hi, my name’s Jeffrey. Do you know about acupuncture? Have you heard about acupuncture?” And it was just really, it made me feel really small. I didn’t even know what a call-to-action was. I didn’t even know how to deal with any of this stuff. This was before I started working with Dr. Lloyd. And my mindset shift went from me selling myself to me selling the medicine. There’s no difference. No difference. I’m still “selling myself,” but I’m really standing behind the fact that acupuncture changes lives and that really helped me feel more comfortable and confident in getting out there and doing that.

[MICHELLE] (40:11):

I love the idea that acupuncture is worth taking a risk in marketing. Like it’s worth feeling the fear and doing it anyway.

[JEFFREY] (40:25):

Yeah, and so couple ways to overcome that fear, I think would be one, I encourage anyone that is graduating or anyone that is interested in doing any type of talks, join Toastmasters. Massive life changing experience for me. Not only did it give me the confidence and the knowledge and the testing grounds for my messaging around acupuncture, but it gave me referrals. Also, another thing that was really helpful for me was having ideas on how I can come up with good scripts and overcome objections. And one of the things I had my students do were to go ask your friends and family what they think about acupuncture and what their biggest objections are and then literally answer those and then learn them, understand them. So when someone says the needles are painful, oh, it doesn’t work or, oh, you’re going to want to see me forever, or, oh, acupuncture is a religion, which I’ve heard, I’m sure a lot of people have heard —

[MICHELLE] (41:31):

I have heard that too, unfortunately.

[JEFFREY] (41:34):

Yeah, which is strange and interesting. But the idea is like when you know what you’re going to say, how you’re going to say it, you’ve said it before, you feel comfortable saying it, there’s no fear because you know what to say, you know how you’re going to say it, you’ve said it before.

[MICHELLE] (41:52):

It builds so much confidence.

[JEFFREY] (41:54):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I remember taking the bus in Seattle to work and I would literally sit there and review my three by five index cards of my scripting and my verbiage. And it’s been, I don’t know, I started practice in ’98. It is probably been at least 18, 20 years and I still understand those, I can just overcome that stuff immediately now still.

[MICHELLE] (42:22):

I love that you were practicing on your commute, because that is also when I like to practice. I am such an introvert. Sometimes if I have the spotlight on me in a sort of public setting, like at a Chamber of Commerce meeting, for example, to answer an acupuncture question in front of like a group of people, I will get so nervous. And it’s like, even though I know the answer and if I could write it down, it would be so convincing. But if I don’t practice it, I don’t say it with the amount of confidence that I know it deserves and the amount of confidence that is required to get people to trust me to make an appointment. So even today, for example, I am going to go to a Chamber of Commerce meeting, and I have an open house coming up in a couple of weeks, and they told me in advance that they are going to ask me to say something about the open house.

(43:17):

They’re going to announce it, they’re going to invite everyone, and then they’re going to turn the floor over to me. And they know that I’m an introvert and I don’t love this, which is why I always tell them, if you want me to speak in front of the group, I need you to tell me in advance. So I am just going to practice, it’s only like three sentences that I have to say about the open house, but it’s, I have it written down and I’m going to practice it on the drive to the event so that by the time I get there, it’s not like I’m word vomiting it for the first time. And I think people assume if that level of practice is required, that must mean they’re not good at this. They shouldn’t have to try so hard. They can’t learn this. They should just never do public speaking. Whereas I feel like, just like everything else in life, some things require practice and that’s normal.

[JEFFREY] (44:11):

Absolutely. I mean, practice makes perfect. And the more you practice it, the more it becomes embedded in our minds that it becomes a lot easier for us to say it. And it’ll come out differently when we say it. But at least we know what we’re going to say and how we’re going to say it, and that we’re going to say something relatively intelligent. I mean, as opposed to like, when I go through this process with the students in class, I’m like, okay you’re seeing a patient and they’re like, oh my God, the needles are painful, what do you say? I get like silence. I’m like they’re small. What you need to do, you need to have that conversation. That is, comes from a place of confidence and knowledge to overcome that objection because whenever someone’s like acupuncture, it’s painful, it doesn’t work, it’s that, it’s not like they’re saying, no, I don’t ever want it. They’re just putting up with an objection that you need to sort of move through in a sense, through a knowledgeable rebuttal that makes them be like, oh, that makes sense to me, and then offer them real call to action what that next step could be.

[MICHELLE] (45:24):

I love that. Well, I feel like, gosh, we’ve covered so much ground. I have one more question for you, and that is, what is your definition of success?

[JEFFREY] (45:38):

Well, definition of success, as a practitioner?

[MICHELLE] (45:42):

Sure. It could be like for your life as a whole or your business.

[JEFFREY] (45:47):

So I think a definition of success is knowing that you’ve done your best in a way that is strong, confident, and comfortable to change the lives with this amazing medicine in your community. When you can sit back and you see people out there in your community and you’re saying to yourself, oh yeah, they have a baby now because you helped them with their infertility issues or they’re able to play softball now because you’ve helped them with their shoulder pain or they can swim more. I think finding success for me in practice is knowing that I was an instrument in helping to bring about healing and change in their lives, but not just on a physical level, but more like on a deeper level. And this is another piece that I really feel like is really important, is that when we are in that process of communicating with our patients, a lot of times we stop at, tell me about the pain as opposed to diving deeper into how does that pain affect their everyday life both physically and emotionally?

(47:00):

And once we understand and uncover what that root problem is, once we dive beyond the pain or beyond the infertility, the infertility, it’s like, I’m infertile, yes, we can help with that. What’s beyond that? What will their life look like beyond that? Well, I’ll have a child, we’ll have a family. There’ll be this love. And then I think that’s such a huge piece to remember and even record in your records with regards to what is their motivating factor. Their motivating factor isn’t, I want to get pregnant or I want to alleviate my shoulder pain. Their motivating factor is they want to get out there so they can have more laughs with their children and play softball or have a baby in their arms. And success is understanding what that root is and finding that, bringing it to the surface for yourself so you can support them and for them so you can give that to them.

[MICHELLE] (47:59):

Thank you so much for being here today. Where can we find you online? Of course, we’ll put all the links in the show notes, but where can people find you and connect with you?

[JEFFREY] (48:09):

Great. Well, again, thank you so much, Michelle, for inviting me. Love hanging out with you. Oh, thank you. Thank you for being so great and thank you for bringing this resource to the community. People can find me at acupuncturemediaworks.com and Acu Downloads. And you could reach out to me either of those places if you want to get in touch.

[MICHELLE] (48:31):

Perfect. Well, thank you.

[MICHELLE] (48:38):

I have a brand-new free PDA class available for you; How acupuncturists can integrate ear seeds to build their practice and improve patient outcomes with my wonderful friend, acupuncturist Robin Green. It is worth one N-C-C-A-O-M-P-D-A credit, and we will be live on May 8th at 1:00 PM Eastern. In this class, discover how ear seeds can augment acupuncture treatments, regulate the nervous system to support healing, and provide an accessible home care or travel option for patients. Learn effective strategies to integrate your treatments into your menu of services, potentially enhancing revenue. Patient focused and revenue conscious, this class balances the art of holistic and natural health with sound business practices to help you thrive. I really hope you can join us. Robin does a great webinar. I’ll put the link to register for free in my bio. Hope to see you there.