Portrait of acupuncturist and business coach, Jason Stein, wearing his signature cowboy hat, with the text, Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast Episode 71, Get Creative: More Revenue for Less Effort with Jason Stein.

Today I’m speaking with Jason Stein, an acupuncturist and business coach who’s been in the coaching industry for over 25 years.

He works with acupuncturists and other wellness professionals to help them move the needle and build businesses that are aligned with their values and goals.

This is the FIFTH (!) time I’ve interviewed Jason in the last ten years, and he always shares practical ideas that you can implement right away.

In this episode, Jason and I talk about: 

  • Ideas for generating more revenue while NOT adding to your workload
  • Hosting retreats as a way to increase revenue without breaking the bank
  • How to boost your rank in a Google search
  • What to focus on instead of social media
  • Donation clinics as a way to give back to the community while maintaining a cash-pay business model
  • Tips for optimizing your Google Business Profile for SEO
  • And much more

Hope you enjoy this episode with Jason!

Today’s episode is sponsored by Acupuncture Marketing School, the online course (worth 15 NCCAOM PDA credits).

This week there’s a special discount code just for podcast listeners. The code is PODCAST to save $100 and get a free 1:1 marketing strategy session with me.

Acupuncture Marketing School is a pre-recorded, video-based training that focuses on effective marketing strategies for acupuncturists who want more patients and more impact in their communities. It’s a step-by-step marketing strategy to help you grow a meaningful, thriving practice.

It’s perfect for marketing beginners and anyone who feels like their marketing efforts are scattered and just not getting results.

Learn more about Acupuncture Marketing School (15 NCCAOM PDAs) here and don’t forget to use code PODCAST to save $100 and get a free 1:1 Marketing Strategy Session with me.

🎙️ Listen to Episode #71: Get Creative: More Revenue for Less Effort with Jason Stein

Show Notes:

Subscribe to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:05):

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:34):

Hello there. Welcome back. Today I’m speaking with Jason Stein, an acupuncturist and business coach who has been in the coaching industry for over 25 years. He works with not just acupuncturists, but all wellness professionals to help them move the needle and build businesses that are aligned with their values and goals. This is the fifth time I’ve interviewed Jason in the last 10 years, and he always shares really practical ideas that you can use right away. In this episode, Jason and I talk about ideas for generating more revenue while not adding to your workload, beta testing money-generating patient retreats to increase revenue in ways that are both low-cost and low-barrier to entry. How to boost your website’s rank in a Google search, what you might want to consider focusing on instead of social media and tips for optimizing your Google Business profile for better Search Engine Optimization. I hope you really enjoy this episode with Jason.

(01:41):

This episode is sponsored by Acupuncture Marketing School, the online program. So you guys know that I have Acupuncture Marketing School, the podcast of course, and I also have an online program worth 15 N-C-C-A-O-M credits of the same name. And today I have a special discount code just for podcast listeners. The code is [PODCAST] to save a hundred dollars and get a free one-on-one marketing strategy session with me. So Acupuncture Marketing School is a prerecorded video-based training that focuses on effective marketing strategies for acupuncturists who want more patients and more impact in their communities. It’s a step-by-step process to help you grow a meaningful thriving practice. It’s perfect for marketing beginners and acupuncturists in their first five years in practice. We walk through everything in a very clear linear way with worksheets and checklists, and we cover things like target market, marketing message, branding, social media, email marketing, Search Engine Optimization, and much more.

(02:49):

It’s pretty comprehensive. Plus, the one-on-one marketing strategy session with me can be used for whatever you need. Whether you have questions as you go through the class or if you want feedback on a marketing strategy before you launch it, or if you want to create your personalized marketing plan together, we can do any of those things in your one-on-one session. Again, the discount code is podcast to save a hundred dollars and get your free marketing strategy session with me. The code expires in one week on Tuesday, March 26th at midnight. The link is in the show notes to learn more. And please always feel free to email me with any questions. My email is michelle@michellegrasek.com.

[MICHELLE] (03:28):

All right, let’s get into this episode with Jason. Welcome Jason. Thanks so much for being here today.

[JASON STEIN] (03:38):

Thank you for having me.

[MICHELLE] (03:41):

Absolutely. My pleasure. This is your second time on the podcast and then, gosh, I think we have done two video interviews and maybe a written interview as well. So this might be your fifth time on Acupuncture Marketing School. So welcome back.

[JASON] (03:53):

I love it.

[MICHELLE] (03:55):

You’re definitely setting a record. I don’t think anyone else has been interviewed that many times. I would love for you to introduce yourself really quick if you’d like.

[JASON] (04:03):

Sure. I’m Jason Stein. I’ve been a licensed acupuncturist since 1998 and a wellness business coach since the early 2000s. And I live out here in eastern Oregon on the Idaho, Washington border in a very small town called Joseph, Oregon.

[MICHELLE] (04:24):

You also taught practice management at an acupuncture school for a while. And didn’t you also help start one of the first acupuncture programs at a hospital in your area as well?

[JASON] (04:36):

I did. Both of those things are true.

[MICHELLE] (04:38):

And so they were, that was quite a while ago, but more or less you have been in the practice management side of the acupuncture industry for a very long time and have lots of really helpful insights.

[JASON] (04:50):

Yeah, about 25 years now. It’s hard to believe. I can only tell that by the gray growing in my beard.

[MICHELLE] (04:57):

Time flies when you’re having fun. That’s what I always tell people. So I realized recently I’ve been teaching marketing to acupuncturists for, it’ll be 10 years in July I think. And that also blows my mind, even 10 years blows my mind. You sent out a really nice email newsletter recently, because I have been on your list forever and you talked about the concept of leaning into what brings in the most revenue for the least energy. And I love this topic because I think that a lot of people are a little burnt out. And we are doing all the things, even if that is just practicing acupuncture and herbs, but then we’re also doing all the work behind the scenes in our businesses. We are vacuuming at the end of the day, we are doing the laundry, we’re doing the paperwork, we’re doing the marketing, we’re answering the phones, et cetera, et cetera. And just lately I feel like it’s a lot for everyone. So I’m really curious, what do you recommend in terms of focusing on the most revenue for the least energy?

[JASON] (06:08):

I love that question because it comes up a lot when I work with clients. And before we get there, I just want to say to this acupuncture community how hard you’re working. Like when I hear you say Michelle, the laundry, you’re the janitor and you’re the healer, but you’re also the counselor. And I watch some of the best acupuncturists in the world burn out because they are doing pain relief and fertility and cupping and guacha and being a counselor and doing herbs all on the same patient for $95. So the formula —

[MICHELLE] (06:50):

It’s a lot.

[JASON] (06:50):

That most of us were taught in school was get on insurance panels, rent a space, see as many people as you can and that was the beginning and the end of it. And I’ve just watched and helped as I see people get into everything from fertility programs, low back pain programs executive coaching. It’s really amazing that when we see our skill sets that we’ve learned as acupuncturists, there’s just so much in that tool bag. And so what I think, the easiest thing for the listener to do is to make a list of all the areas of interest they have and then circle the one that they feel would yield revenue for very low output. And so some examples of that, I love infrared sauna, so I wanted to figure out a way to have a very high-end infrared sauna in my clinic so I could take them. And I realized if I put a Bluetooth code on the door, I could rent it out and it’s in its self-contained place on my wellness property. And people just show up, they pop the code, they go in and they pay me

[MICHELLE] (08:12):

Super.

[JASON] (08:14):

I love it. I love it. So make that list. And let me give you some examples so that people can start playing with their own ideas. I had one client that had an infrared blanket because she didn’t have space. I’ve had clients sell different products in their clinics that they always recommend, but they never thought about selling them themselves. Drop shipment is a great way, continuing ed and doing a class on that one thing that you love that no one else is doing. Like the list can go on and on. And really to get your juices flowing, just brainstorm it and then circle the one that is low investment for you to begin and you can charge for it.

[MICHELLE] (09:01):

So you are thinking of like add-ons that don’t necessarily require us the practitioner to be present or use them or get them set up or, and selling products is always great because like you don’t have to make that product. But if it’s something you’re genuinely recommending. Someone said this to me recently. She always tells her patients who have anxiety to start journaling or encourages them to. And one day she was like, why don’t I sell journals? And she said, that has been incredibly popular.

[JASON] (09:36):

So perfect example. Like it’s not just add-ons in the sense that you’re not present, but she could sell journals and then she could have journaling retreats or workshops. And then she could have individual tailored journals that are more of a VIP bottle than the regular journal that everyone gets. So you can take one idea and you can start small and then just continue to expand on it.

[MICHELLE] (10:03):

I love that. And we definitely have to talk more about retreats. I was talking to another guest recently about how to prepare for slow seasons in your practice and her recommendation was to, before the slow season comes to teach a workshop. So it’s one to many instead of one to one and then plan financially to save that money in case like the summer is a slow season, for example, or the holidays or whatever it is. And so I think that’s wonderful, but it’s a very new concept for a lot of acupuncturists. So how do we go about setting up a retreat and how do we know what’s the right topic? Is specific, like a specific topic better than something broad?

[JASON] (10:50):

Yes. So, because —

[MICHELLE] (10:53):

That was a lot of questions.

[JASON] (10:54):

It’s a lot of questions, but I’ll take them one at a time. One, the two most important aspects of building your business from like a growth standpoint, one is understanding just a little bit about SEO because it does make a difference. And the other is expanding your network and growing your relationships. If you can learn a little bit about both of those, you can absolutely excel. And so when you say the kinds of retreats, if it’s for a specific audience or a specific topic, I believe the SEO in there is super helpful so that it’s seen, it can go beyond your own network.

[JASON] (11:36):

But I also believe how to begin is as simple as one identifying a location that’s super affordable and get outside your own box. It may be that you have somebody that owns an Airbnb that’s willing to gift it to you if they can attend the retreat. So break the model of it costs a lot of money for me to expand my business and get into what’s it like to experiment with things, fail with some things, but totally excel with others. So the bigger picture is we lived, I built a wellness center with my wife in a town of 1200 and there’s only 7,000 people in the county, but there was no solid wellness center that had acupuncture and a gym and a wellness retreat center. We lived in a tiny house while we built the property and then we just converted that into retreat, wellness retreats. And so last year was our first year, we started doing them with Airbnb, and then the city was like, you can do wellness retreats, but you can’t have an Airbnb because it’s not zoned that way on your property. So that was a learning experience for us, but we can do wellness retreats where people come out specifically for the wellness aspect rather than just having an overnight and not getting any services. So that’s a distinction.

[MICHELLE] (13:13):

Okay, I so you are hosting these wellness retreats. So they’re multi-day retreats. And I guess maybe after this we could talk about should they start with a workshop and then gradually go to retreats? So you’re hosting these wellness retreats overnight and guests can stay in the tiny home where you used to live, and then during the day you’re offering them different classes and services?

[JASON] (13:41):

Yeah. My wife is a naturopath and naturopaths in the state of Oregon are primary care physicians. So we have two retreats that we’re offering right now. One is for the general public that can come in, come for three nights and they get acupuncture, they get a naturopathic consult and then my wife does ketamine therapy as well. So they can get ketamine if they want that. Then the other is we started beta testing this because I have coaching clients and they’re all founders and business owners, and so I designed a three-night founder’s retreat where they can get out of their business, they can get some wellness for themselves, but they can also do some business strategy. And that’s been working really well.

[MICHELLE] (14:30):

And I definitely think that this idea can be applied to acupuncture patients.

[JASON] (14:36):

Of course

[MICHELLE] (14:37):

I have some people, acupuncturists and yoga teachers near me who host a retreat and it’s a different location each time and sometimes it’s just a day and like they’re not staying overnight. Sometimes it’s a whole weekend. It’s like a getaway. But they’re usually, they have a program and it’s not just one person, it’s a group of experts and everyone’s coming together. So it would be like yoga in the morning and then breakfast and then you can get acupuncture and chiropractic and then in the afternoon there’s a meditation option. Or you can take like an art therapy class and then in the evening everyone has dinner together. And like it’s very structured because some people really enjoy that and then they divvy up the income, however works for them. But I think it is really nice to think about it from the perspective of you don’t have to be the only person providing the services or doing all the things for the whole weekend and then you have all of the energy and enthusiasm of all of these people.

(15:40):

Like you and your wife are putting this together and you have all of these different skills that are related. And so when I think about an acupuncturist putting together a retreat like this, it sounds like a really good approach, is to recruit your local wellness friends, your colleagues. And think about, I love what you said about breaking the mold or the getting rid of the idea that hosting a retreat has to be very expensive, asking people who might have a space you could use if you could trade. I love trades. If they want to attend and not have it cost anything or, I think people don’t do this enough. Like if someone gives you a price point, try to bargain, or not even bargain, but say genuinely my budget is a thousand. Can we do anything with that? And if not, that is okay. It never hurts to ask

[JASON] (16:40):

Michelle, I’m doing a happy because you’ve been doing this for 10 years and there’s no way you would negotiate in year one and in year 10 you’re like, “Hey, I’m going to negotiate everything. I love it.”

[MICHELLE] (16:51):

Do you know why? It’s because recently I decided to do Google retargeting ads and the, the ad company who’s like a friend of a friend, so I sort of knew them in real life, gave me a quote of $3,600 a month, which is actually like expected that’s on par. And I was like, ooh, yeah. So that’s not going to work for me. My budget is this, this was less than a third of what they offered. Can you do anything with this? And if you can’t, it’s really okay. And their answer was, sure we’re relatively new, we’re willing to work with that budget. And they also explained to me instead of getting this many million views on your website, you’ll only get like a quarter million per month. And I said, okay, let’s try that instead.

[JASON] (17:41):

So let’s break this apart just a little bit, because what you’re saying is they were new, so they were willing to get you as a client, they recruited you as a client at a lower rate because they’re still, they’re working at it. And so let’s bring it back to retreats. Let’s say you’re just scraping by, but you can feel it in your heart that you want to do retreats. Well, a way to do it would be find one friend that owns an Airbnb somewhere, that has a little bit of land. And what you do is you tell that person your idea and you enroll them that they can come to the retreat for free, but you’re beta testing it with the space and then you go find a sound therapist and you say I’m beta testing this, would you like to be a part of it, and then only so many people can stay in the house. So you have everybody else bring a tent and they pitch a tent in the yard.

(18:36):

So there’s just ways to expand and explore without you having to lose your shirt on I thought it was going to be a good idea, but it didn’t work out. Because for most of the lowest hanging fruit, highest yield, it takes some beta, it takes some experimenting to find out what’s going to work, what your audience will actually pay for, what the right rate is. And most people have so much jitteriness and fear really that it’s hard to take those steps. So my recommendation is work with someone like Michelle, or I get a peer accountability buddy, find a way to say 2024, I’m going to take some bold steps to crack my business model to really add to revenue in ways that aren’t going to cost me too much and I’m going to have a little bit of a support system so that I’m not constantly getting paralysis of like, what am I doing?

[MICHELLE] (19:39):

And I think that telling people that you are beta testing takes an enormous amount of pressure and expectation off for everybody and makes you more likely to ask for help because people, I guess we assume people are going to be much more forgiving during a beta test.

[JASON] (20:00):

Yeah, and a beta test doesn’t mean you can’t charge for it. You can always say that this weekend retreat is 1500, but I’m doing it for $599.

[MICHELLE] (20:12):

Yes. And I think it also, it’s fascinating because the people who are willing to try a beta test sort of get the opportunity to feel like they’re part of your idea machine, they’re helping you figure out what works and what doesn’t, and so they have some almost like vested interest in your success and later on when your retreat is like a more formalized thing, I think that they are going to be more likely to bring people or tell people about it because they were there for the original.

[JASON] (20:51):

Exactly. I mean imagine who was there for the original Robin Green workshop on pediatrics or Andy Rosen’s first workshop on Eyes. It just, we could go on and on and we don’t think about all these mentors. Giovanni Maciocco, we could go on and on and and forget they had a starting point too.

[MICHELLE] (21:16):

I love that. It’s so good to be reminded of that.

[JASON] (21:18):

For you the listener, this year’s can be your starting point and you could really try something that works well and then you just keep evolving it and making it better and better and better. One of my favorite articles in the world, Michelle is called the 70% Principle. And Sean D’Souza is a cartoonist and a sales copywriter out of New Zealand. And he wrote this article decades ago, about 70% is good enough because if you can get it to 70% and you can keep moving, you’ll move above a hundred percent because that first year you’ll make it even better. You’ll make it 50% better. So if it was 70% already and you make it 50% better after you launch it, then you just get better and better and better.

[MICHELLE] (22:10):

I love that.

[JASON] (22:11):

So I’m a big fan of not just winging things. There’s a difference between just throwing it out there and like not having an outline and inviting everyone to 10 and not having a structure and being really organized and really together in your job when you’re launching these things is to say, I’m going to give my best and I know it’s not going to be the best that it ever will be.

[MICHELLE] (22:38):

Yes. I like the idea of just trying to do things 1% better each time. Because again, it just reduces the pressure. 1% doesn’t feel like a lot, but over time it becomes very significant.

[JASON] (22:54):

It’s like compound interest. That’s how banks thrive.

[MICHELLE] (22:58):

Yes. Do you feel like maybe if the retreat approach feels like a lot for people in the beginning that they could start by hosting a workshop?

[JASON] (23:11):

I mean you can get Zoom for 40 minutes for free. You could just start with a webinar. People are very interested in investing in topics that they have interest in. And so, in the acupuncture community, I would say anxiety relief, better sleep, pain reduction, fertility, these are some of the top ones. But then there’s so many more.

[MICHELLE] (23:38):

I keep thinking about the person with the journal that we were just talking about and how, what a great idea it is that you suggested for her to have some sort of journaling workshop and walk people through that process. And that could be an hour or less. And then it’s a great stepping stone because that could easily be incorporated into a much larger workshop later on. But you could beta test each piece individually.

[JASON] (24:07):

You know, I have a past client, it’s been a long time and she was a doula and she really realized that women really wanted a space to discuss their menstrual cycles. And so she designed the Womb Tang clan and that was her offering. So she had this workshop, the Womb Tang clan, and it blew up Maisie Hill, if you want to look her up, maisiehill.com. And Maisie then began writing and had audio books and now has a closed group and all of that was out of creating one workshop.

[MICHELLE] (24:53):

I feel like there’s a lot that holds people back from getting visible in that way. The idea of hosting a webinar on Zoom is a little scary because they are maybe worried about, I don’t know, I feel like lately we live in a world where if you have a particular opinion on a topic, you prepare to be shredded by the trolls on the internet. Does that make sense? And so that really prevents people from taking a bold step and and teaching a class from a particular perspective, even though we know Chinese medicine is rooted in thousands of years of practice, but it’s hard to get visible in that way. And so what do you recommend to help people sort of, I guess, break the ice? Because as you’re saying with Maisie, like she did one thing and it probably felt bold and maybe scary in the beginning. I don’t know her personally, but I think for many people it could feel scary, but then it really blossomed. And so, like you never know what can come out of it until you take that first step. So how do we break the ice for that first step?

[JASON] (26:02):

So a couple of things. One, let’s go back to Maisie because she and I have had this conversation publicly in a public domain, so I don’t feel like I’m telling stories on her. But she wrote an article and the article was a blog called What’s Up with the Wet Spot in Your Knickers and the article went viral, it just blew up. And she didn’t do anything for a year. She just needed a year to mentally prepare herself for where she was headed. And so, for what you’re saying, there’s twofold. One is I think we all need to do our key grounding practices or foundational practices that work for us to make sure that we don’t let other people decide who we are and what we get to do. That’s the first thing. The second thing is, if you’re not ready, you’re not ready, trust yourself. It’s okay to prepare for that retreat in 2025 and this year you’re getting yourself ready and prepared to do the retreat. That’s totally reasonable and doable.

[MICHELLE] (27:14):

Yeah, I love that idea of the chi grounding practices so that nobody else can tell you who you are. It’s pretty profound.

[JASON] (27:24):

You know, do people cuss on this podcast? They

[MICHELLE] (27:28):

Maciocco can

[JASON] (27:28):

Okay, so I have an uncle, and my uncle is a bit out there, he’s getting on his years now, but when he was younger he had several children. He lives in Canada and the first day of high school for each of his children, I’m trying to remember if he has five or six, but he would take them out, he would make their lunch in the morning and he never made their lunch. And he would take them to the porch and he would say, today is your first day of high school. You’re going to have a lot of teachers and other students having a lot of opinions about who you should be, how you should act and what you should do. He handed them their lunch and he said, don’t let them motherf*ckers you

[MICHELLE] (28:17):

That’s amazing. It is. It’s such an important topic. And I suppose this is a tangent, but I do feel like so much of the media and commercialism today praise on the idea that we aren’t good enough the way that we are and there’s something we should change or improve. Don’t let them get you. Don’t let them get you

[JASON] (28:44):

Too much of social media kills the spirit for sure. So really just, again, I’m coming full circle. I’m a simple guy. I believe in simple, regular, consistent actions. Start with that list of creating your list, maybe retreats is on there, maybe it’s not on there, and then take a bite. Take one little bite out of there.

[MICHELLE] (29:10):

And I love that Maisie knew that she needed time off after the intensity of the internet really got her with that one article. But good for her for taking her time.

[JASON] (29:22):

Yeah, she is an incredible person.

[MICHELLE] (29:26):

I love that you said earlier that two things that that will more or less bring you success with your practice are SEO and building relationships. And it is so funny that you say that because I feel like I’ve been working on both of those in my practice. Probably for the past maybe four months, but especially in January, I feel very motivated. And you know I’m an introvert and so building relationships in the community has not always been the easiest thing. But I just feel this fire all of a sudden to participate in the community and feel like a community member instead of sort of being on the outside because generally I am on the outside and I like that. That’s been my jam in the past and I cannot tell you what an impact it has made on my practice to do things like volunteering or going to meetups that I’m interested in, asking the local chamber of commerce if they need help with something, because they honestly, they always need help. They always need volunteers.

[JASON] (30:31):

And so many people need that.

[MICHELLE] (30:34):

Yeah, and just being willing to say, sure, I can help you for two hours on Monday, have no idea what they need from me. Just show up at their office and say, okay, here I am. But getting to know people in that way has really helped, for lack of a better phrase, like put a spotlight on my practice and what I do because I have felt in the past, and I’m sure you’ve heard this phrase all over the internet, that my practice is a bit of a, like a best kept secret in town. It’s like it’s cosmetic acupuncture in a rural area. It’s very niche, it’s a little bit expensive, and so it’s me and an associate and I mean, honestly, we’re just good at what we do. There’s lots of acupuncturists around who are good at what they do, but like, so are we. And I find that the more I’m out in the community talking to people, they have no idea that my business exists. So I’m like, okay, I’m over this feeling that my practice is a best kept secret, even though we’re doing well. I wish more people had any idea what I was talking about when I bring up cosmetic acupuncture or even just acupuncture. And so I definitely have found that consistently working on the SEO and then making an effort to just meet more nice people has helped a lot.

[JASON] (31:56):

So there’s three parts in what you said for me, the first part, there’s so many acupuncturists that are so good at what they do and they’ve struggled financially. And so, it’s hard to see when you have someone in a $2,500 a month lease and they’re adding providers and they’re working all the time and they get the best service in town and they have no money at the end of the day. It’s really hard to see. So the first thing is, it’s not about how hard you work, it’s about how smart you work. And that’s a trite saying, but it’s very true. The second part is really getting to know your community. Tad Hargrave is a guy that has marketing for hippies and he always would answer the question when people would ask, do I niche or niche or do I not niche?

(32:54):

His answer was, it doesn’t matter. It’s really about how the community refers to you. How does the community know you? That’s the best answer. So you can be the best general practitioner in your zip code and everybody knows you. Now you live in a small community. Like I live in a small community, Michelle and Russell Brown owns Poke Acupuncture out of Hollywood, California. And I interviewed him years and years ago and when we got to the money conversation, he just said, “You know what, I charge a lot, but I volunteer every week.” Here’s a man who figured out how to volunteer at a women’s shelter and I thought to myself, if this guy can figure out how to get even clearance to do acupuncture at a women’s shelter, anything is possible. So when I built our wellness center with my wife, we decided we don’t take any insurance, everything’s cash pay, but two hours every week we have a donation clinic and we see upwards 15, 20 people a week that come in from the community and everybody in the community knows us for our wellness space.

(34:12):

So in addition, I wanted more, like most community acupuncture clinics are just that five chairs, ear acupuncture. And so we’ve designed it, so we have a massage therapist come in and she does chair massage, my wife does naturopathic consults. We have an infrared compression machine called the Flo Presso. People can do that. I can do body and ear acupuncture and it just, it’s an amazing thing. And so when someone says, do you take insurance? I have no problem to say, “Absolutely not. I absolutely will never take insurance. But we have a donation clinic on Tuesday.”

[MICHELLE] (34:58):

And honestly, I think that is such a nice balance. You said donation clinic. So almost like a sliding scale.

[JASON] (35:07):

We say no donation is too high or too low. Don’t stretch yourself.

[MICHELLE] (35:11):

I love that. Nice.

[JASON] (35:13):

And we have people bring eggs, greens, somebody works at like Wild Carrot, if you’ve ever heard of them, so we always get wild carrot samples.

[MICHELLE] (35:25):

Nice. That’s amazing.

[JASON] (35:26):

And then cash

[MICHELLE] (35:27):

So I would encourage people to think about, if it’s something that is on their mind, how can they give back in a way that feels meaningful to them, fits into their schedule, and also helps them feel like this, they’re serving the community more deeply. But that it’s a good balance and it’s not something that is going to cause stress or resentment and it might take a little tweaking. Beta testing.

[JASON] (35:57):

Yeah, definitely beta testing. I actually, when I moved to town, there’s seven acupuncturists, I think five of which practice, most practice part-time in the county.

[MICHELLE] (36:09):

Wait, wait. There’s only 7,000 people in the county and there’s seven acupuncturists?

[JASON] (36:13):

That’s correct.

[MICHELLE] (36:15):

Wow. That seems like a lot of acupuncturists for not very many people.

[JASON] (36:19):

I think it’s a lot because it’s a very desirable place. We live on the edge of the world where it’s an hour and a half to the closest freeway, and it’s known as the Swiss Alps of Oregon and it’s rated top 10 small towns in many magazines. So it’s a gorgeous place to live, but only one of them practices full-time as an acupuncturist that I know of. And so I wanted to share with you that two of those acupuncturists told me that they tried to create a community clinic and that it didn’t work and so I knew that I had to go uphill to have it work. Now one of those things is my wellness space, is on a main like we’re very visible, so that’s helpful. The second thing that helped was that I included more than just acupuncture and then the third thing that helped is I’m pretty good online with SEO and with being visible.

(37:24):

One of the things that I recommend all the listeners do is consider taking the time that you spend on social media and taking a portion of that to spend it on Google Business profiles because that’s SEO. So when someone puts acupuncture near me, if you’ve been active on Google Business Profile, you’re going to show up. And there’s a way to actually jump in the ranking that I highly recommend. About two years ago, I started really drilling down the rabbit hole into Google Business profiles. And I’ve taught for Jane.app and other people, and I just think, figure out what works for you and if you hate SEO or if you hate social media at least do Google Business profiles, it’s free.

[MICHELLE] (38:15):

So what are quick suggestions for Google business profiles, like big picture?

[JASON] (38:21):

Big picture is change it from static to dynamic, so do updates on it.

[MICHELLE] (38:26):

Okay, and like the updates down at the bottom?

[JASON] (38:29):

Yeah, about 1% are doing video, so add some videos rather than just photos. Most people don’t know you can add videos to your Google business profile.

[MICHELLE] (38:38):

Ooh, I love that. I think I might have a video on my Google Business profile like on accident, where I’m like, I guess I put that on there. I don’t, I didn’t know that was possible, but I guess I did that. And how often should we do those updates, sharing articles or events that are coming up on our Google Business profile?

[JASON] (38:59):

Well, the bigger question is how often are you on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or whatever else, TikTok? If you’re there weekly or several times a week, then just moves once a week over to Google Business profile. I think that’s enough. And then reviews are super important. So I would shoot for two new reviews a month.

[MICHELLE] (39:21):

Okay, and I think that’s all a reasonable number, one profile update a week and one to two reviews per month. That’s doable.

[JASON] (39:33):

Absolutely. Because what you were saying about 1%, it just adds up over time and before you know it, you have more reviews than anyone else.

[MICHELLE] (39:41):

And it’s fascinating to me because I know that with websites, Google likes to prioritize websites that are updated more often as opposed to the website that was published a decade ago and then it just sort of sits there and there’s never any new pages or new information that are added. Google likes to refer people to websites that they, that it feels confident are alive, that they’re active and accurate

[JASON] (40:11):

That are alive. I like that. It is fascinating that if we did, and this is a guess, I don’t have real-time studies, but my guess is the amount of hours in a month that people put on social media. I’ve seen one study that says people on social media at least 10 hours a week, and that’s a low number. But if you were on your website just one hour a week, adding a blog or a photo or something, that’s your website rather than Facebook’s website, TikTok’s Instagram’s website.

[MICHELLE] (40:48):

That’s so true. And I guess we always forget that our social media doesn’t really belong to us.

[JASON] (40:57):

Right.

[MICHELLE] (40:58):

And we are, it is just the nature of the beast that when you contribute to Instagram or Facebook, you are helping Meta, I guess have more activity on those pages. But what a great idea to focus that activity on the website that you do own.

[JASON] (41:18):

Yeah, I really would like to see some studies of acupuncturist on social media and how many are actually getting new patients. I know it happens because I have clients that have it happen, but I think it’s rare than we think. And I think if you use those same strategies with building a larger network in your local community and building more headway on your own website, your results would be different.

[MICHELLE] (41:47):

I’m starting to think about my digital presence in a different way lately in terms of it supporting my real-life presence in the community. And I know that I get patients from Instagram, but I think that it is really about all of the exposure that people have to me. Does that make sense?

[JASON] (42:11):

It makes total sense.

[MICHELLE] (42:13):

Every piece of your marketing supports everything else as opposed to just focusing on one channel.

[JASON] (42:21):

Yeah, let’s take this as an example. I can guarantee that you have listeners that are patients on your acupuncture blog and on even on this audio podcast that you have listeners that aren’t acupuncturists, but they found you and their followers. And so I’m, I can be lazy when it comes to marketing, although I’m a marketing specialist, I’m good at it, but I post every day on Facebook and those posts pushed to Instagram and I can’t tell you the number of times that I go to the local health food store and she’s like, “Did you get in the lake today?” People know about my family, about my life because I post. It also means that people know about my business. And so you’re absolutely correct. We started this whole conversation with SEO and your personal network. I’m going to change that just slightly to say your online life and your offline life, and both of those I think are equally important if you’re wanting to grow and if you’re wanting to leverage your, what you do for a living, for the revenue that you do it for.

[MICHELLE] (43:38):

And I always think that people, well sometimes people get a little freaked out by the idea of sharing too much of their personal life and feeling like they have to overshare or be on social media constantly in order to achieve that recognition in person or to have an impact on their audience. But I really don’t think that’s true. I usually tell my marketing clients to pick sort of like buckets of their personal life that they’re comfortable sharing. So that might be, what am I reading right now? Photos of my pets. If you go out to a restaurant and you want to take a picture of your food, food photos still do incredibly well on Instagram. So do pets. It’s like these things will never change.

[JASON] (44:25):

Pets, children, food and wellness. Wellness does really well, fire cupping, acupuncture, video testimonial. Here’s two things we didn’t get into this podcast, and I know we got to start closing out, but one thing is AI. Even with podcasting, I’m using CastMagic now, which I love and it takes it and it forms titles, it does the SEO, it does the transcript, it highlights the transcripts and pulls out quotes from the transcript. I mean, it’s amazing, the AI and where it’s headed. And you can say, yeah, but it freaks me out. Well, I’m sure ATMs freaked people out when they first got here and it’s coming whether we want it to come or not so it’s good to be informed about AI, that’s one thing. And then, I probably forgot the second thing, let me think what it was. That’s coming down the pipeline for us acupuncturists, I think being able to charge what you’re worth because if we go comparison with coaches or health coaches, there’s a lot of health coaches that are charging way more than you and they’re giving way less. And so we’re going to see this insurance thing continue to be a hassle. Now, I’m not saying don’t take insurance, but consider pulling away from the ones that just are giving you the most havoc and consider going out of network with others. How can you build your business in a way that it works for you?

[MICHELLE] (46:00):

Yeah, definitely bringing it full circle to that idea of working smarter, not harder, which is focusing on what brings more revenue for less energy.

[JASON] (46:10):

That’s right.

[MICHELLE] (46:14):

Okay. Well, we could keep going forever, so you’ll have to come back a sixth time. My last question for you of course is what is your definition of success?

[JASON] (46:25):

That’s a great question. My definition of success is being able to do what I love in a way that I’m rewarded with finances that allow me the security and the fulfillment to be able to really enjoy my family and my life.

[MICHELLE] (46:52):

Very nice. Well, thank you as always for being here. Where can we find you and follow you online?

[JASON] (46:59):

My podcast, Wellness Renegades is on all streaming. Wellnessrenegades.com is where you can find me, including, I don’t know if we have the retreat page live yet or not, but come out to Joseph, Oregon and visit, if you’re not going to do a retreat because it is a beautiful place. But Wellness Renegades on Instagram, basically Wellness Renegades.

[MICHELLE] (47:24):

Okay, on all platforms. I love it. Thank you again so much for being here.

[JASON] (47:29):

I always appreciate being a guest. It’s great to see you, Michelle.

[MICHELLE] (47:36):

Thank you again for listening today. Just a quick reminder to check out Acupuncture Marketing School, the online course before the discount code expires next Tuesday. Again, this class is a great fit if you are a marketing beginner or if you feel like your marketing is scattered and just not producing results. Plus, I absolutely love the one-on-one sessions talking with you and helping you get clarity and accountability in your marketing so that you can reach more people with acupuncture. The link is in the show notes and the discount code is [PODCAST]. Feel free to email me if you have any questions at all. I’ll talk to you soon.