Episode #87 of the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast: Market Your Acupuncture Practice Smarter, Not Harder, with Kate Matheson, featuring an image of Kate wearing a white t-shirt in front of a tree.

Today I’m talking with Kate Matheson, a business strategist and coach for health and wellness entrepreneurs.

Kate helps practice owners fill their schedules and create a waitlist using business systems and marketing approaches that are productive, genuine, and self-sustaining.

After her own experience with intense burnout that required her to close two businesses in order to get surgery and recover, her focus is on helping wellness practitioners work smarter, not harder, so we can protect our energy while we focus on doing what we love – helping more people.

​In this episode, Kate and I talk about:

  • How burnout was brutal but made her priorities crystal clear
  • Her experience living in China
  • Ideas for getting patients from MDs
  • Why any marketing strategy should be reverse-engineered from the outcome you ultimately want to achieve
  • Her four levels of social media strategy
  • Why she doesn’t think social media is for everyone
  • Why getting visible in the established communities of other business owners is a great way to get new patients

Hope you enjoy this episode with Kate!

Show Notes:

Listen to Episode #87: Market Smarter, Not Harder with Kate Matheson

This episode is sponsored by Clinic Transformations, the ultimate program for clinic owners ready to reclaim their time, boost profitability, and build a thriving team culture.

If you’re an acupuncture practice owner feeling stretched thin, Clinic Transformations is here to help.

Created by industry expert Ildi Arlette, this program goes beyond the basics. We’re talking a complete roadmap tailored to help you run your practice whether you have a team or work as a solo practitioner. Imagine stepping away from daily chaos and instead leading with purpose, growing your clinic’s revenue, and finally achieving work-life balance.

Clinic Transformations offers coaching, interactive resources, a learning portal with in-depth video training, and templates to fast-track your success. Plus, you’ll join a mastermind community of like-minded clinic owners all on the same journey.

Whether you need guidance on knowing your numbers, considering your first hire, retaining your patients, finding new ones or setting up systems that keep things smooth, Clinic Transformations is where you want to be.

Plus Ildi is offering promotional code VIP200USD to save $200 on your enrollment.

If you’re ready to transform your clinic and actually enjoy the process, connect with Ildi and her team at Clinic Transformations:

Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:00):

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:33):

Today I’m talking with Kate Matheson, a business strategist for health and wellness entrepreneurs. Kate helps practice owners fill their schedules and create a wait list using business systems and marketing approaches that are productive, genuine, and self-sustaining. After her own experience with burnout, that required her to close two businesses in order to get surgery and recover, her focus is on helping wellness practitioners work smarter, not harder, so we can protect our energy while we focus on doing what we love – helping more people. In this episode, Kate and I talk about how burnout was brutal, but made her priorities crystal clear, her experience living in China for a year, why any marketing strategy should be reverse engineered from the outcome you ultimately want to achieve, her four levels of social media strategy and why she does not think social media is for everyone, how getting visible in the established communities of other business owners is a way to get new patients, ideas for getting patients from MDs and much more. I hope you enjoy this episode with Kate.

[Clinic Transformations] (01:44):

Today’s episode is sponsored by Clinic Transformations, the ultimate program for clinic owners ready to reclaim their time, boost profitability, and build a thriving team culture. If you’re an acupuncture practice owner feeling stretched thin, Clinic Transformations is here to help. Created by industry expert Ildi Arlette, this program goes beyond the basics. We’re talking a complete roadmap tailored to help you run your practice, whether you have a team or work as a solo practitioner. Imagine stepping away from daily chaos and instead, leading with purpose, growing your clinic’s revenue, and finally achieving work-life balance. Clinic Transformations offers coaching, interactive resources, a learning portal with in-depth video trainings and templates to fast track your success. Plus, you’ll join a mastermind community of like-minded clinic owners all on the same journey.

(02:40):

Whether you need guidance on knowing your numbers, considering your first hire, retaining patients, finding new ones, or setting up systems that keep things running smoothly, Clinic Transformations is where you want to be. So if you’re ready to transform your clinic and actually enjoy the process, connect with Ildi and the Clinic Transformations team. You can book a private one-on-one call with Ildi, which is a free 45-minute chat with Ildi about your goals and your needs for your practice. You can also text the team, if that’s easier, at 403-312-7501, or you can email Ildi at ildi@resultscontinuum.com. And of course, I will put the link for the private one-on-one call, as well as the text number and Ildi’s email address in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[MICHELLE] (03:31):

All right, let’s get into today’s episode with Kate. Hi, Kate. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you today?

[KATE MATHESON] (03:42):

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I am great. Like I was just saying before we hit record, this is my first one-to-one chat post-mat leave, and so I’m feeling really excited to get back to my thing.

[MICHELLE] (03:54):

Welcome, and congrats. You said your baby is eight months old?

[KATE] (03:57):

Yeah, like almost nine. It’s so wild.

[MICHELLE] (03:59):

Oh my gosh. What’s their name?

[KATE] (04:01):

His name is Mac.

[MICHELLE] (04:02):

Very nice. I love that. So you are a business coach for all kinds of wellness entrepreneurs. So I’d love to give you the opportunity to introduce yourself. I’d love to hear a little bit about your background and how you got into this.

[KATE] (04:17):

Yeah, I’m sure like many people that find their way into business coaching, it’s a winding path. For the last seven, almost seven years I think now I’ve been working with health and wellness practitioners, helping them build fully booked practices by really helping them master their message and create self-sustaining businesses so that once they get booked, they can actually stay booked and start waitlists and expand, streamline without this constant hustle heavy, like must keep marketing revolving door mentality. I also own a sports therapy clinic with my husband, and so I’ve been doing this sort of phase of my life for six or seven years. I’m a passionate advocate of health because of how this journey led me to here. I’ve been a long-time entrepreneur. This is, I think my 13th or 14th year as a business owner. I’ve had six other businesses, and I come from a business background.

(05:12):

All my family, they all have businesses and side hustles, and so it’s just sort of natural for me to be an entrepreneur. I studied it in school, but about, I think it was around 2014, I was running my real estate company, I was building a team. I did project management. I was also building my side hustle at the time, which was an online meal planning membership site. This was sort of when meal planning, was in its very early days, and so when I think back, it’s so rudimentary, but I was doing all kinds of different things. I was working 80 hours a week and one day my body just snapped. I’ve had autoimmune issues since I was 17, and I had managed it totally naturally, but yeah, my body said no. I got really, really sick, and about a year later, I had to shut down my meal planning business. I closed down my property management business and I really scaled way back. I had surgery, I took time off.

(06:11):

And there’s nothing like a health crisis to wipe your life lens clean. It’s like things get crystal, crystal clear pretty quick when you are faced with surgery and having to take, like being forced to take time off from work. But it was such a blessing in disguise, and really, things came into perspective that I wanted to stop chasing what I thought success was, like what these sort of outer perspectives of achievement and really build a business from a lifestyle first perspective. So I sort of transitioned out of real estate over the next couple years. I started working literally 20 hours a week, making more money and having way less stress, and being a small business owner while also working in health, my husband was finishing up chiro school, I was seeing so many health practitioners, and it just clicked into place because I had a conversation. Like I’ll never forget it, this was like the catalyst for starting this business.

(07:17):

I was with my massage therapist one day in downtown Toronto, and she said I was her only massage that week, $100 massage. And I was like, “How are you paying your rent?” You’re just like, “Oh, well, I’m not, I’m losing money every month and I’m trying all these different things and I just don’t really know what to do and I’m waiting for people to come find me, and I don’t know what to do to market myself.” I was like, “Okay, well let me help you, girl.” And then I started helping my husband and his colleagues, because they didn’t take any classes. They took one business course in all of their chiropractic school. That was not super thorough or practical. And so I just started seeing all these practitioners in my world, not really realizing until they were thrown into it that they were actually business owners and then they were like, okay, how do I do this? And it naturally evolved. We ended up moving to China a year or two later and so I was again, forced to take my business online, and the rest is history. It’s been six years of sort of this iteration and I absolutely love helping a community that has done so much for me and my health over the years, kind of learn the side that’s my expertise, but not necessarily theirs, which I’m sure you have seen in your own personal experience and in others too.

[MICHELLE] (08:38):

Oh my gosh, I’m so excited for this conversation. I have so many thoughts and so many questions for you.

[KATE] (08:44):

Let’s do it.

[MICHELLE] (08:44):

Let me get my thoughts ordered for a moment. Where did your husband go to Cairo school? It wasn’t NYCC was it? Was it CMCC?

[KATE] (08:53):

It was CMCC, yep. So we’re in Canada, we’re Canadian. So yeah, he was at CMCC and it’s, aside from the French school, the only one in Canada, so we know a lot of the chiropractors that are sort of in and around his graduation year, but they all come out and they’re all like, “Oh, yeah, I know everything there is about the human body except how to get those bodies into my practice.”

[MICHELLE] (09:17):

Yeah. I ask because I worked at what used to be called the New York Chiropractic College for four years, and we used to get a ton of Canadian students, because we are really not that far from Toronto. So I was wondering if there was some wild chance that I had run into your husband at some point, but I guess so.

[KATE] (09:34):

No, he’s CMCC grad. And it’s funny because they actually also get a fair number of US students.

[MICHELLE] (09:42):

Yeah, it goes both ways.

[KATE] (09:42):

Yeah.

[MICHELLE] (09:44):

Okay, so before we dive into all of my questions about your marketing expertise and getting your thoughts and opinions on a million things, I’m curious about your living in China, if you don’t mind sharing how that came about.

[KATE] (09:56):

Yeah, I mean, it was not because of me. My husband actually got a job working for the Chinese Olympic Wrestling team and…

[MICHELLE] (10:04):

Amazing.

[KATE] (10:04):

Yeah, it was amazing. We were just like, can’t really say no, but it’s funny timing because it was probably, that was early 2018, I was six months into running this business, and at the time it was in-person. I would go into gyms, I would go into yoga studios, I would go into clinics and do sales trainings and work behind-the-scenes. And so I was like, okay, I guess we’re going to go to China, which also, when you first think about moving to China, you’re like, of all the places I could live in the world, like, do I really want to move to China? But honestly, we ended up absolutely loving it.

[MICHELLE] (10:40):

I was going to say, all the acupuncturists who are listening are like, yes.

[KATE] (10:43):

Yes, they’re like, yes.

[MICHELLE] (10:44):

I do.

[KATE] (10:45):

Yes, exactly.

[MICHELLE] (10:46):

It’s intimidating though, if you don’t speak Mandarin or Cantonese.

[KATE] (10:50):

Yeah, exactly. And yeah, it was just an interesting move. And it’s just hard to run an online business there because they don’t allow Google and Facebook and all of these things. So transitioning my business to online in that first year while being in that country was hard, but yeah, it was amazing. And it was also amazing, as you say that to go to a family doctor there, which was really just a traditional Chinese doctor. Like their dispensary was really just, it was just so incredible.

[MICHELLE] (11:25):

Awesome. How many years were you there?

[KATE] (11:27):

We were there, I was actually only there for about one. My husband was there for about a year and a half, but then we decided to move to Bali, and that was like a whole other thing.

[MICHELLE] (11:38):

Amazing. If you’re on that side of the world, why not just explore?

[KATE] (11:43):

Yeah, exactly.

[MICHELLE] (11:45):

Okay. So one of the things I would just love to talk to you about, because this is something that you work with people on, is structuring a marketing plan because. And it just amazes me you mentioned that your husband only had the one marketing class at his chiropractic school, and when I was in acupuncture school, it was very similar. And you mentioned that that class wasn’t terribly practical. If I recall, when I was in acupuncture school, I think we had one semester that was more like building a business plan and then the second semester was slightly more about marketing. One was practice management, and the other was more marketing focus. So I always felt like we were really lucky because we had two of those classes, and most people got one. And even two feels, it just feels not sufficient. But I would say one of the things that, you know the more people I work with across all wellness disciplines, the more people tell me they have no idea how to create a marketing plan. They were never told that they should have any marketing budget, and they’re just, I mean, they’re literally starting from scratch. So, yeah, how do you go about creating a marketing plan or what are the pieces that you think they have to for sure include?

[KATE] (13:07):

Yeah, okay, let’s get into it. Yeah, that’s really fun. Because I think you probably see it too, a lot of practitioners are staying hidden because the marketing piece is so overwhelming.

[MICHELLE] (13:19):

Oh, absolutely.

[KATE] (13:20):

Because it is, it’s like, should I be on TikTok or Instagram or do blog posts or podcasts or whatever. So I like to start a little more high level than that before we get into the, like, nitty gritty of all these million strategies. The very first thing that you want is understanding the messaging piece and who you work with and what they’re needing and their language and things like that so that when you do apply it to your marketing, it actually resonates and it clicks and connects. But assuming you have that piece in place, and we’re really just talking marketing plan, I think you want a few things. One, and we can get into them if you want to dig deeper, but one is a baseline brand presence.

(14:04):

So when people are looking for you, they can find you. This is things like, it could be a website or your social media profile, or your Google Business profile, or depending on what type of clinician you are being on certain directories, but being able to have that baseline brand presence that’s sort of like a storefront, but digital so you can be found. Once you get back checked off, I like to create what I call a smart marketing plan that is really outcome based first. I don’t know about you, but I talk to practitioners all the time and they’re like, “Yes, I’m doing social media. I’m posting all the time.” I’m like, “How’s it going?” And they’re like, “Oh, yeah, I think it’s good. People are really receptive to my content.” And then I say, “Well, how do you know? How’s it going in terms of leads, inquiries, engagement?” They’re like, “Oh no, I don’t get any of that.” Like, so what are you doing??

[MICHELLE] (14:55):

So why, yeah, why are you doing the things that don’t generate leads or phone calls?

[KATE] (15:00):

Yeah, especially social. I think so many people feel they have to do it, even if it doesn’t do anything for them. So I like to think, okay, what are the outcomes you are hoping for from your marketing? And you sort of dive into strategies that are aligned with those outcomes. So there’s sort of four outcomes that I see, one, or four ways really that people can find out about you. One, they can find you through search and things like that. Two, other people tell them about you. Other people are doing the selling for you, essentially. The third way is you are showing up where they’re hanging out, so other people’s communities or other platforms. And the fourth way is building a community and having people within this community nurtured for a while. I find these are sort of the four main ways that you are going to attract clients.

(15:51):

And there are certain types of strategies within each of those ways. So I think it’s really important when you’re creating a marketing plan that doesn’t have you doing 500 different things every week, that you think, okay, what are my top one or two main ways that I want to market myself? What are the outcomes that I’m hoping for? And some of this is based on your market and practice conditions, like you were saying your marketing budget. If you don’t have any, then you maybe are going to focus on different things. You’re going to go use other people’s communities more and things like that. If you don’t care about building a community, then maybe you don’t need to have a podcast or really focus on your email list as much or different things. So I like to understand your goals and then you just pick one or two strategies within those outcomes.

(16:43):

So for a lot of practitioners, they want to do as little marketing as possible down the road and they don’t have a ton of money. So I tend to like strategies that one people can find you, so that’s why I like a baseline brand presence, and two, where you get other people selling for you, so your patients and clients, your Google Reviews and your professional relationships and professional referrals. Those are ones that I think they just fly under the radar a little bit sometimes.

[MICHELLE] (17:14):

Yes.

[KATE] (17:14):

And in exchange for wanting to do some of the, like flashier digital marketing, but you got to do that stuff consistently and really effectively. And sometimes it costs money and I don’t think, don’t do them. But if any of you listening want strategy that compounds over time, get other people selling for you. I don’t know, what do you think of this, because you teach this as well.

[MICHELLE] (17:38):

I love that perspective, that idea of other people selling for you. And I definitely agree that is the sort of thing that snowballs and compounds over time. I’m also curious, when you say joining other people’s communities or showing up there versus building your own, are you talking about in the real world as well, where would networking fit in or building relationships in your community? What category would that be in?

[KATE] (18:08):

It depends. These are not hard and fast rules. They’re sort of crossover. I think networking can be in both. The getting into other people’s communities, I think that’s also a really amazing one. That’s what I’m doing right now. I am providing value to your community in order to grow my own. So I think podcast guesting, getting into free media, doing collaborations, joint workshops, if you’re in the real world, for sure. If you are, I have a lot of people who are like yoga teachers who are also massage therapists. Or I have people who are acupuncturists, but then they also do sound bath healing and things like that. So they can go do workshops in the real world to build, basically tap into other people’s communities to start building their own.

[MICHELLE] (18:55):

Got you.

[KATE] (18:55):

Yeah, so that’s the thing. You can start to play off of these a little bit where you’re using the outcome of getting into other people’s communities to then go build your own community, start building your own email list or your own social audience, things like that. So I think they play off, but I think sometimes when we’re just so focused on the individual strategy, oh, I’m going to be on Instagram, or I’m going to start a podcast, we don’t really see how it fits into the big picture and what it’s providing you. I see people who are just, just, just focused on content creation. All of their strategies are building a community, but they don’t have a, like, they’re just working uphill against themselves, because they’re not tapping into other people’s communities to help build their own at all, for example.

[MICHELLE] (19:45):

Got you. Yeah, okay. I’m really happy to hear you say that because I often recommend that acupuncturists do acu yoga classes. And I’m always trying to tell them, you have this incredible opportunity if you team up with a local studio because they have an audience and they are essentially, gosh, I can’t think of the word, but they’re approving what you do by sharing you with their audience every time they’re advertising for this class. And their goal is to fill the class so they’re going to make a big effort. They are putting you in front of their audience and saying I trust this person, even though they’re not using those words. And then when you are sitting in front of them, you have the opportunity to introduce your practice before the class even begins. But I guess I never really thought about it as this idea of using someone else’s community to kickstart and build your own community. And I think that is a really nice way, nice mindset for people to take because it’s not like, okay, I’m here to do acu yoga, but also like, I really need to sell acupuncture and I need to get people from this specific class, which you can absolutely do, but I think it takes some of the pressure off just to think of it like I’m in this person’s beautiful community filled with people who would be great to be my patients. And so that also allows me to build my community.

[KATE] (21:13):

Yeah. Even just being there, it’s funny because I also recommend that to a lot of [inaudible 00:21:18].

[MICHELLE] (21:18):

Oh, nice.

[KATE] (21:18):

Like YIN & PIN events, like that’s how I met one of my acupuncturists.

[MICHELLE] (21:20):

I love it.

[KATE] (21:22):

And I’m, yeah, I met one of my Reiki practitioners also. She was doing a workshop that, she was doing reiki as we were doing restorative yoga. You don’t necessarily go in and you make a sales pitch at the end, but you have conversations, you start to get recognized, people start to know you and yeah, you build your community. I think it’s one of the best, best ways when you’re just getting started. Don’t try and do this alone. Don’t try and build your own community. Don’t try and be the only one selling for you. Use the community around you, whether that’s online or in person. I think it’ll speed up your growth tremendously. And it’s just more fun too.

[MICHELLE] (22:00):

Yeah. It’s also a nice way to make business friends, other people in the community who are also hustling to build something worthwhile. And it can be very lonely to be just an individual in your space, so getting out there and meeting other people is very supportive, I think.

[KATE] (22:18):

Yes, and you never know where it’s, what opportunities are going to arise from it. There’s so many forms that professional relationships can take that I think just having those conversations and getting out there and seeing what happens is such a nice, and like you were saying, low stress. You can remove the expectation of a specific outcome and just start to connect with people.

[MICHELLE] (22:43):

Yeah. So do you have recommendations for building those internal referrals from patients? Because I think you had mentioned in the category of getting people to sell for you, referrals from other professionals, referrals from patients, and referrals from online reviews, which are also from patients, but they’re in their own category.

[KATE] (23:05):

Yeah, I, to be honest, lump them in terms of execution in a similar category. It depends. I think every, I work with a lot of different disciplines in a lot of different countries. I’m sure you work, and there’s different regulations, so it depends what you’re allowed to do in terms of asking for those referrals and reviews. But I generally find that if you’re not incentivizing in some way, and you’re simply asking, like it’s actually not more complicated than that. So I just generally like to start by asking for a review. If you’re not comfortable doing it in an appointment, you can do it by email. And I call these proactive emails. You’re not just checking your inbox and seeing what comes in. You’re putting time aside maybe 30 minutes a week to dedicate to sending out requests for Google Reviews.

[MICHELLE] (23:57):

I love it.

[KATE] (23:57):

Once you’ve done that one time, you know you’re not going to ask the same patient for a Google Review multiple times, I don’t think, you’ll then move on and ask them for a referral a few months later. And it could be a few months after you’ve worked with them. I have a system that I take people through where you’re actually connecting with your past patients and your current patients a few times a year.

[MICHELLE] (24:17):

I love it.

[KATE] (24:18):

And it really starts to compound, but it doesn’t have to be more complicated than a simple email asking. I know that sounds scary, but people are generally very happy to help. It’s the law of reciprocity.

[MICHELLE] (24:33):

Yes. So I usually tell people if they ask for review and the person gives some like an enthusiastic yes and then they don’t do it, I recommend asking one more time, just sort of, “Oh, hey, remember how you said you would do this?” Because I do think people are drowning in their inboxes and they just, they have such good intentions and they forget. But yeah, after that, I’m usually sort of, and in my own practice, after two asks, I leave people alone, because I also accept that that might be their way of saying no without saying no to me.

[KATE] (25:10):

Yeah, and some people don’t leave Google Reviews. And, and that’s sort of the, I didn’t say that properly, like I generally my system, because you’re reaching out with people consistently. It’s not like a one and done type thing. It’s like the first time that you’re reaching out to them would be a Google Review, but you might follow up on that one. But then a few months later, when you’re reaching out to them again, I generally would start asking for the referrals or just checking in. I have, again, there’s a system of follow ups, but I think there’s so much benefit to staying in contact with your past patients, just every so often, yes, or the referrals and the reviews, but you never know when someone’s going to pop back into your schedule.

[MICHELLE] (25:49):

Yeah, and so I’m curious because I’ve never, I don’t know if I’ve ever specifically asked patients out of the blue to send a referral. How do you ask that? It’s probably very simple.

[KATE] (26:05):

Well, there’s, I always like to have some context around it. So I am big into email templates. I think that’s a big piece for a lot of practitioners, is when you don’t know what to say, it feels way more complicated. And then when they see the template, they’re like, “Oh, that’s really easy.” But I think there’s a few ways you can do it. Sometimes you can add some value. Oh, I just wanted to send this over and say thank you for working together. It was so nice. Like, I absolutely love working with people just like you who are X, Y, and Z. If you have anyone else in your community, or you know of anyone else who’s dealing with X, Y, Z, who also is amazing like you, please feel free to send them my way. I always am taking on new clients, or I’m always taking on new patients, something like that. You don’t have to say like, “My schedule’s always wide open, but I’m consistently taking on new patients.”

(26:56):

I actually learned this strategy in real estate, and I remember at the time, my real estate coach that I started with, I was like 23 when I was doing this, he said, “You’re going to get people telling you, oh, I’m so sorry, but my sister-in-law wants to buy a house. I know you’re so busy, but do you mind if I put them in touch?” And you’re thinking like, “Heck yeah, put them in touch. I need the business.” But people always think they’re asking for a favor or you’re too busy. And so sometimes they’re not going to refer, I don’t know, I’ve seen it in our practice too, where they’re like, “I’m so sorry, but my, my husband really needs some care too.” And you’re like, “Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m here for.” So sometimes people just need to know, yeah, please send them my way. Please have them book in or book a free consult, whatever your system is. I have a few different intros, but yeah, I think offering some value, literally just saying, “Oh, this just popped into my inboxes the other day and it made me think of you. How are you doing? It was so great.” I always say, “It was so great working with you,” and how, and something that they did that you want more of. So maybe it was the type of person that they were, the commitment that they had to their health, the type of complaint it was. And then you can segue into, if you come across other people dealing with this. “I think if you,” is like a great starter for anything.

[MICHELLE] (28:20):

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay. Do you have any tips for getting in front of other healthcare providers? This is something that people ask me about all the time, because they want to know, how do I get referrals from MDs? I think people are really nervous to talk to MDs. How do you recommend that they go about it?

[KATE] (28:42):

I don’t have a hard and fast rule, or a hard and fast answer, because I think it’s really different whether you’re in a city versus a small town. Like we’re in a small town, we know a lot of our MDs, we get a ton of referrals from them. It also depends on the type of practitioner you are. Like if you’re an acupuncturist, I think it depends on the MD and how receptive they are to acupuncture as a modality. I think some are going to be more than others. So I think it depends how much competition there is in your area. If there’s a ton, so it depends a little bit. But a few things that I have found a lot of my clients have had success with when we’re talking MDs specifically is one, start with your own. That’s a great way to start. You’re in there and you just start chatting and you create that little segue. I have some people, it depends again, on the type of of practice, but some people who will just put up a poster within the doctor’s office with their info and the QR code so that they can simply say, “Oh yeah, send them here.” And it’s like a referral card, but almost all

[MICHELLE] (29:50):

So smart. Oh my gosh.

[KATE] (29:52):

Yeah, so it’s a simple idea and it just depends if they have that type of thing. I have some others who just literally leave business cards or postcards, but I think something that makes it really easy for the MD to say like, “Oh yeah, you should probably see so and so.” I have some though, like pelvic floor physio, for example, who works with OB. She has a lot of fertility work, and obviously like prenatal postpartum. And I can see there’s a lot of acupuncturists who are in similar fields. The OBs are not necessarily referring them, but their cards are there, their posters are on the wall and up and women see it when they’re just at the office and boom book in. So going back to that, I think start with your own MD, see what opportunities there are to put even a little bit of material even in the office, even if they’re not referring.

(30:42):

You can do lunch and learns and things like that. I find it really depends on the office. It’s not my personal preference, but I do have clients who do well with it. But one thing that I have found works really well, and again, this is sort of like a warm way to enter into the world, is on your intake forms, when your patient leaves their name of their family doctor, you simply ask patients and you just get comfortable doing this with pretty much every single patient saying, “I like to have your family doctor up to date on what’s going on with you. Is that something that you’re open to if I just send them a quick little update so that everyone’s updated on their care?” Some people are going to say, “No, thank you.” That’s totally fine.

(31:24):

Some people are going to say, especially if it’s like an MSK issue or something that their doctor might also see them for, they’re like, “Oh yeah, sure. That makes sense to have everyone in the loop.” We have them sign, it’s actually like on one of our consent forms, is allowing us the release. And so then we’ll email their doctor. We’ve never emailed them before. Or you can contact them in a way, HIPAA-compliant, if it’s faxed, things like that. Just saying, “Oh, I had one of your patients in today. I wanted to give you a quick update on her care.” And you give a super short update and then you say, this is exactly the type of person patient that I see. If you have any others, please feel free to send them my way. Super quick.

[MICHELLE] (32:03):

Love that.

[KATE] (32:03):

You make that one super quick. But the fact that you have gone and reached out to them with value, and you’re going over and above proactively, letting them know about their patient, we’ve had so many program members do this, and then they’re like, yeah, family doctors are like, “Thank you so much.” They are actually very impressed by it. And so it builds a little bit of that trust in you and then your name just starts to become familiar. So that’s the little back entryway that I like to do. And you just can get into the habit of it.

[MICHELLE] (32:36):

I love all of this. So, okay, let’s switch gears and talk about social media, because I feel like social media as a user and as a business owner has just become so inundated. People are just absolutely inundated. I get a lot of feedback from my marketing clients that nobody ever sees their posts anymore. So much has changed in social media in the past couple of years. There’s always the argument about whether you must be on video or if you can succeed on social media without video. So I’m really curious, how much time do you tell your people they should be willing to dedicate to it? And like, how much is too much, where they’re arriving at that tipping point where their effort is enormous, but their return on it is almost nothing?

[KATE] (33:32):

Yeah. So I’ll answer that part first and then we’ll go back to that one.

[MICHELLE] (33:36):

Too many questions.

[KATE] (33:37):

No, no. Because I think if someone was to run Google Ads and not get any people from it, they would shut those ads down. If they were networking and doing coffee dates all the time that were just burning their energy and not really feeling very good, they were feeling super inauthentic and not amounting to anything, they would stop doing the coffee chats. And yet with social media, it’s the same type of marketing tool and yet we feel this innate need to keep doing it when it’s providing no ROI, no return. And so that is not, to me, that is not okay. And it’s, I actually think that it is on a level playing field with all other marketing strategies. In fact, I actually find, unless you really like it, it’s not going to work as well as other strategies.

(34:28):

It’s one of my least favorite. I haven’t created content myself the whole time I was on mat leave. And so now when I go on, I feel what you were saying, that inundation, that absolute saturation of content. Before I return, I really need to take a pause and think like, how do I want to do this? And so when I teach clients, I really say they’re, again, there’s no one and done it. I have like four levels of content, of social strategy. Basically, level four is you really like it and it’s like your main strategy. You’re making like posts five days a week, you’re on social, you’re doing all the things. You’ve got the, honestly, I’m so out of the loop being out, like I don’t even know what they’re called, like the broadcast stations or channels or what is this new stuff on Instagram?

[MICHELLE] (35:13):

I don’t have one. So whenever I go for those invitations, they’re like, so and so is inviting you to join, blah, blah, blah, and I’m like, on Instagram and I’m like, I don’t need any more content.

[KATE] (35:25):

Exactly.

[MICHELLE] (35:25):

I do not need another way to be in contact with you or anyone.

[KATE] (35:28):

No, I’m not even doing it. So anyway, level four is like, you’re into it, it is your main strategy. You must make sure you are getting patients and clients from social if you are at a level four output. And I have clients who social’s the main way they get people, but they enjoy it. So that I find really helps. Level one is actually what we do for our clinic. We post maybe one time a year when we’re moving to a new location or we bring on a new associate. We don’t vote.

[MICHELLE] (36:00):

We exist.

[KATE] (36:00):

We barely exist. We used it in the beginning. We were more like a level two, level three, but it’s because we were growing. But now we don’t like social media. We have more than enough patients that come from other sources so we don’t need it.

[KATE] (36:15):

And I think you can start there. I have people, I have other acupuncturists actually, who are like, I’m not doing social, I don’t want to do it. So they just know they have to find other ways of getting their name out there, nurturing their audiences and making offers. That’s it. And then level one, level two is somewhere in between you’re posting a few times a week or a few times a month even to just have a presence, just to exist. So I think you have to find, here’s how I’m going to use social based on how much I like it, and recognize what you should be getting in return for it. If you’re using it at a level one or a level two, don’t expect it to be your main source of getting patients. It’s your just way to stay present. It’s your way to show that you still have a running business.

[KATE] (37:04):

So again, I really think it’s about matching what’s the outcome that I’m expecting from this. Two, what’s the output that I’m willing to put into it, or the input I guess I’m willing to put into it. I generally am like a reverse engineer, I work backwards, or like, here’s the goal, here’s what I want, what’s going to make most sense. And a lot of times I find social media just doesn’t make a lot of sense as a main strategy for people, just like a complimentary one.

[MICHELLE] (37:34):

I’m so happy to hear you say the idea of working backwards, because one of the first things I ask people for social media, they’re putting together content for the month or even thinking about what should my marketing strategy be for social this month? The first thing that I ask them is, well, what is your goal? Because that is going to determine the content that you choose to create. And I find that a lot of wellness people are creating content on social with no call-to-action, but their goal is, well, obviously I want to get patients from the enormous amount of effort I am putting into this. But then they never actually say, click the link in my bio to make an appointment or for a consult or DM me with questions or anything like that. And so I guess I never thought about it as reverse engineering, but that is a beautiful way to consider it, because if your goal is to get patients, you have got to think about how am I structuring this content so that I can actually…

[KATE] (38:38):

Get paid.

[MICHELLE] (38:38):

Tell people to get on my calendar.

[KATE] (38:41):

Yeah.

[MICHELLE] (38:42):

And then the other thing I really love that you mentioned was the idea that if people don’t love social, they are just not going to, they’re not going to be as committed to it. They’re maybe not going to be as good at it. I’m always telling people that if you don’t love something, you’re probably not going to be consistent. And marketing really requires consistency over time, especially for social media. That is a long-term game. You can’t just open an Instagram account and expect to have six patients from it in the first month. You’re building a community, as you said earlier. So generally I let people off the hook.

[KATE] (39:20):

Yeah, me too.

[MICHELLE] (39:20):

I’m like, if there’s a marketing strategy, you hate, don’t do it. We’re not going to plan for that strategy. Because I think a certain amount of disdain for different strategies that people don’t like comes through in their efforts, even on a subconscious level. You’re just not trying that hard because you hate it. And I mean, I’m certainly guilty of this as well. And I always tell people, I’m like, you should experiment with your marketing because how will you know what you like if you don’t try a bunch of things? But that also means you’re going to bump into things that you’re like, ew, I’m not going to continue this. Be willing to abandon them in favor of something that actually does generate patience that you don’t hate.

[KATE] (40:05):

Yeah. I mean, on the flip side, I’ve got people who that I’ve worked with who hate networking. They hate the idea of going and doing a coffee chat or reaching out to MDs or going to a networking event is so blah to them. Don’t do it. I mean, I also think there’s ways you could do it. It could be one on one reach outs. It doesn’t have to be going to networking events, but yeah, I 1000% agree, if you don’t like it, especially with social, you’re not going to be listening to the podcast that teach you how to do it better. You’re not going to be doing it consistently. You’re not going to be thinking about it when you’re out for a walk. You’re just not going to be doing the things that are required to these days, actually have an effective social media presence. You’ve got to at least be interested. And my clients who do well with social, they’re into it. They’re playing with TikTok, they are open to doing the videos, they think about content ideas come to them naturally. That’s cool too.

[MICHELLE] (41:07):

Yes. It’s whatever works for you. And I will say for the networking, gosh, yeah, it’s so hard if you’re an introvert. I live in a very small town there’s about I want to say maybe 7,000 people, and so…

[KATE] (41:23):

We’re, I think around 3,000

[MICHELLE] (41:24):

Oh, my gosh. Teeny tiny. That’s the town I grew up in, was 3,000 to 4,000 people.

[KATE] (41:29):

Yeah. But you know what, there’s like another town next to it.

[MICHELLE] (41:32):

Yeah, same.

[KATE] (41:32):

You’re probably smaller.

[MICHELLE] (41:36):

And I just felt like despite being an introvert, I was like, man, I think I need to have more feet on the ground interactions in real life with these people in my town, because it is very much about building trust and in person generates trust quickly. But I’m not great at networking even after all these years of practice. So I was thinking, ugh, what can I do to get me in front of the people at the Chamber of Commerce so that I don’t feel so darn awkward showing up at those meetings, standing there with my glass of water just by myself.

[KATE] (42:11):

Honestly, that’s my nightmare too, doing those events.

[MICHELLE] (42:15):

Very true. So a friend of mine went to this big event that they host every year as a volunteer. And so she got dinner for free and she got to do all that networking for free because, instead of paying like $80 for this networking event. So I reached out to the Chamber of Commerce and said, “Hey my friend Susan volunteers with you guys, and then she gets to do some things for free. Could I, do you need help with stuff? I’d love to, I don’t know, just show up and give me direction, something brainless. Like I could use a break mentally.” And they were like, “Yeah, we always have stuff going on.” So they started inviting me to things like if they had an event where they were doing a big raffle and they were putting together these baskets, these raffle baskets, I would just show up for three hours on a Monday afternoon and follow directions. Like you’re just sitting there talking to people and it’s very low-key and there’s only three or four of us so that when the monthly meeting comes around, I show up and all of a sudden there’s four people who are like, “Hi, so nice to see you.” So now I am in one of the groups.

[KATE] (43:19):

Yeah, you’re on the inside kind of.

[MICHELLE] (43:22):

Yes, I fit in there. It’s expected that I’m going to be there. They introduce me to new people. And that was like a revelation for my, not just my ability to go to networking events and not hate them, but to feel like, oh, now I’m actually getting patients, sort of like putting gas in the fire.

[KATE] (43:41):

I love that idea.

[MICHELLE] (43:43):

Yeah, I think it helps to think creatively about how can you do marketing and be visible in your community in ways that are comfortable so that they can snowball and you can spend your time in ways that you don’t dislike.

[KATE] (43:59):

Yeah. And that’s why coming back to the smart marketing plans that I create, I’m thinking about the outcomes that you really want for your marketing first, and then you can be like, okay, well, now how can I make that happen? How can I get other people talking about me, referring me, selling me? And yes, I can provide you ideas, but there’s always so many creative ideas that you can come up with when you start thinking about, okay, how do I get this outcome from my marketing and again, reverse engineer it? There’s so many. And I love that. I’m the same. I’m now on my community business board because I also do better when I have a purpose and I have, I’m again, sort of on the inside versus feeling like I’m on the outside. But you know what, tying back into social media, that’s another way that I think social can work really well when you’re an introvert and you don’t want to be putting out content. Use it as icebreakers with other businesses in your community all the time. Just DM them. Chat with other local businesses, people that you’ve wanted to get in touch with, start liking their content, commenting on their stories. You become Instagram friends so that when you see them in real life, you’re already friends.

[MICHELLE] (45:15):

Oh my gosh, this is how I have been telling the people who don’t like social media, but they have an account and they’re just like, “I’m burnt out. I’m tired. I don’t know if I want to do this anymore.” I’m like, “Okay, let just switch gears and think about using your Instagram account for business-to-business networking.” Because we’re always thinking about it as business to consumer. How can I reach all these individual potential patients and convince them to become patients? What if we just took a little break and said, “Who are all the really cool other business owners that I admire who are floating around out here,” and make a concerted effort to have a presence on their account so that you can start talking. And then some of that is going to bloom into really nice relationships and things like acu yoga or Reiki and acupuncture, or whatever it is.

[KATE] (46:05):

I love it for that. And I think sometimes we can look at a profile and think, oh, they haven’t been active in so long. Well, we don’t know what they’re actually doing behind-the-scenes. And so much of business is actually happening behind the scenes. So it’s not necessarily the people who are putting out content every single day that you’re thinking like, oh, I really should be doing that too. They’re putting out so much content. You have no idea if they’re actually getting patients from it. To be honest, they’re probably not, or not as many as you think they are. So the behind-the-scenes stuff, it’s great. It’s low-key. It can happen on your timeline. I love it.

[MICHELLE] (46:46):

I know we’re coming to the end of our hour, but I feel like I’m going to have to have…

[KATE] (46:50):

No, it’s done quickly.

[MICHELLE] (46:51):

I know, right? I’m going to have to have you come back so we can talk about some of those behind-the-scenes structures, because I think that is also something that is really not taught at least in acupuncture school. And it was a bit of a revelation for me at my practice to understand things like automation and there’s a specific way to answer the phone and answer emails and collect information, et cetera. I think that would be a super conversation. I have one more question for you, and that is, what is your definition of success?

[KATE] (47:23):

Hmm, well, like I said in the beginning, it’s definitely changed from years ago. My definition of it, success now, especially being in mom life. I don’t usually quote Gandhi. This is not something I typically do, but there is a quote from Gandhi that I live by now, and that is, “there’s more to life than increasing its speed.” And I remind myself about all the time. And so now my version of success is doing as like little as possible. I don’t know if that just makes me a lazy gal, but the less I can do, the better. And I just think there’s, again, we have this idea that in order to work, you have to be working a lot. And don’t get me wrong, when you’re just starting out, like you’re going to be working more than you are when you’re 10 years in. It’s inevitable. But make sure it’s working for you. Do the things that are effective that you enjoy and that are smart. And so for me, I’m always like, okay, how can I do less? The less I do, the more successful I feel. This busy badge, I no longer wear it as a badge of honor. That for me has felt like a success. So now running my business in two days a week. I’m feeling like a success right now. I’m sure it’ll change.

[MICHELLE] (48:41):

Amazing, oh, thank you so much for that. Will you say the Gandhi quote one more time?

[KATE] (48:45):

Yeah, “there’s more to life than increasing its speed.”

[MICHELLE] (48:48):

I love that. Thank you.

[KATE] (48:50):

Yeah, now it can be your quote, too, to live by. It’s a good one.

[MICHELLE] (48:53):

Yes, it’s a good one.

[KATE] (48:54):

When we’re feeling like we, oh, what’s the next thing I have to do, I should do more, I should do more, there’s more to life than that.

[MICHELLE] (49:02):

So good. Well, how can people contact you? How can they find you on the internet?

[KATE] (49:09):

I mean, you can find me on Instagram @mathesonandco. I’m not on there that much these days, although I am behind the scenes. So feel free to send me a dm. I’m still always chatting. But you can straight up send me an email if you’d like, just kate@mathesonandco.ca. Or feel free to always book a free strategy session. I do a couple a week where we dig into your practice, we look at what’s going well, what’s not, and really make you a custom plan. We talk today, there’s so many variables that go into someone’s strategy and plan that’s going to be successful for their practice.

[MICHELLE] (49:45):

Oh, wonderful. And so your website is mathesonandco.ca?

[KATE] (49:47):

.ca, yes.

[MICHELLE] (49:47):

Because you’re in Canada.

[KATE] (49:51):

Yeah.

[MICHELLE] (49:51):

Okay. Beautiful. And we will put all of that in the show notes. Thank you again so much for your time.

[KATE] (49:57):

Oh, no problem. I absolutely love doing these with others in this field because I feel like we could just chat all day.

[MICHELLE] (50:04):

So fun. This has been so fun.

[KATE] (50:07):

We nerd out over, I think smart business. It’s not just business for the sake of it. But yeah, this was wonderful. Thank you so much, Michelle.

[MICHELLE] (50:14):

Thank you. As always, thank you so much for being here. Be sure to check out our sponsor, Clinic Transformations. All the links are in the show notes so you can learn more. This cohort begins on December 4th. So if you’d like to join Ildi Inside Clinic Transformations, you’ll want to set up your free 45-minute call with her ASAP, so you can discuss your business and your goals. Thank you again for being here. Talk to you soon.