Most of us in health and wellness are equipped with talent and passion — but not always enough belief in ourselves.

Vicky Shilling joins us in today’s episode to dive into why self‑trust might be the missing piece to your practice growth. As The Trust Yourself Business Coach, Vicky has helped countless wellness practitioners who know the marketing strategy, but can’t seem to get things off the ground in their businesses.

If you sometimes catch your inner voice saying, “Why would people listen to me?” or “Stay small, it’s safer when you’re not so visible,” then this episode is for you. (And you’re not alone!) You’ll learn how to recognize when you’re stuck in a “learning loop” and how to collect evidence that it’s safe to be visible in your community.

In this episode:

• Why your inner voice is just trying to keep you safe, and how to navigate that
• Vicky’s TRUST method for working with that inner voice with curiosity and compassion
• Small experiments help retrain your brain toward confidence
• You can’t out‑strategy self‑doubt—you must work with it

Find It Quickly:

00:35 – The Power of Self-Trust in Business

00:56 – Meet Vicky Shilling

01:26 – Understanding Self-Doubt and Imposter Syndrome

01:39 – Strategies to Overcome Self-Doubt

02:35 – Sponsor Message: Jane Practice Management Software

04:23 – Interview with Vicky Shilling Begins

04:38 – Vicky’s Journey and Expertise

08:12 – The Importance of Mindset in Business

10:31 – Vicky’s Trust Method Explained

15:04 – Overcoming Fear and Finding Evidence

17:47 – Real-Life Examples and Client Success Stories

19:46 – Facing Fears and Taking Action

22:23 – Overcoming the Fear of Criticism

23:28 – Handling Disappointment in Business

25:00 – Dealing with Online Trolls

28:24 -Embracing Your Unique Perspective

33:20 – The Never-Ending Journey of Self-Development

Connect with Vicky:

Website: vickyshilling.com

Book: vickyshilling.com/book

Self-Trust Lab Assistant: subscribepage.io/lab-assistant

🎙️ Listen to Episode #119: Stop Getting in Your Own Way: How Self-Trust Can Grow Your Acupuncture Business with Vicky Shilling

💙 This episode is sponsored by Jane, a clinic management software that’s here to make practice life a little easier.

Ready to get started? Use the code ACUSCHOOL1MO for 1 free month at jane.app.

Subscribe to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

 💖 Love the podcast? Help other acupuncturists find the podcast by leaving a review here.

Transcript:

Michelle: Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community. Take marketing action with confidence, and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives.

So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

Hello and welcome back. Today we are talking about something that very quietly can have a huge impact in your business that doesn’t get talked about very often. Self-trust. So if you’ve ever caught yourself thinking, I have taken all the courses. I have a plan, but I still feel stuck, or I know what to do, I’m just not doing it, then this episode is for you.

My guest today is Vicki Shilling, also known as the Trust Yourself Business Coach. Vicki works with health and wellness practitioners who aren’t making progress or achieving their goals because usually without realizing it, they’re getting in their own way when it comes to growing their businesses. And this is super common, and Vicki has taught all the practical stuff, how to design your website, how to use social media over the years.

But she noticed over and over again that knowing the strategy wasn’t the problem. The real bottleneck for so many people was self-doubt. Imposter syndrome and that inner voice that says things like, who am I to do this? No one will pay for this. Or what if people judge me? So in this episode, we talk about why you probably don’t need another strategy.

How to recognize when you are in a learning, but not implementing loop Vicki’s trust method for working with that inner voice, which is trying to protect you instead of trying to bully it into silence or ignore it. And how to gently collect evidence that it is safe to be visible, to market yourself, and to take that next step in your business.

We get into fear of judgment trolls on the internet, why entrepreneurship is basically ongoing self-development, and how self-doubt tends to shape shift and what to do about it. So if you’ve ever felt like you are the bottleneck in your own practice, even though you care deeply, you are skilled at what you do and you really wanna help more people, and trust me, I have been there, then this conversation is going to feel like a deep exhale.

Alright, let’s dive in with Vicki. Today’s episode is brought to you by Jane, a practice management software and EMR that helps health and wellness practitioners care for their communities. I know switching EMRs can feel daunting. I’ve been there, but it feels easier when you’re supported by a team every step of the way.

When you switch to Jane, you’re not making the move alone. You’re backed by an award-winning and human support team with unlimited access to Jane’s support. You’ll have someone there to answer your questions as you get your new EMR up and running. Jane also understands that questions don’t stick to a Monday to Friday schedule, which is why you can access support by phone, chat, or email on Saturdays too.

I know my main concerns with switching from another EHR were how long will it take? Is it possible for me to mess this up and am I going to have to figure this out by myself? So the Jane team will actually do the transfer of your patient files into your new Jane account. You do have to download the files from your current EHR or EMR, whichever you prefer to call it.

But Jane has easy step-by-step instructions for how to download your files. And other information from a huge variety of other EHRs, and this was much simpler than I imagined. And then you just send the file to Jane and let them know what day you want the transfer to happen. I think it takes about 24 hours, so I did not have to do that by myself and therefore could not mess it up, and it was a very short turnaround.

So if you’re interested in learning more, book a demo at Jane app and if you’re ready to get started, you can use my Code Accu School one Mo for a one month Grace period on your new account. And of course, I will put the link and the code in the show notes for you. All right, let’s get into this chat with Vicki.

Hi Vicki. How are you today?

Vicky: Very good. Thank you so much for inviting me to chat.

Michelle: Yeah, thank you so much for being here. Before we get started, I’ll give you a chance to introduce yourself to the audience.

Vicky: Perfect. Well, thank you for having me and for everyone tuning in listening. My name’s Vicki Shilling, and I am the Trust yourself business coach.

So I coach largely people in the health and wellness sector. Clients are people like nutritionists, health coaches, acupuncturists, personal trainers, anyone in that kind of space, um, to reach that next level of their business. Often I find self-doubt, um, little wobbles, that voice inside our head is often holding us back from doing the next great thing we would love to be doing.

Um, and really working with my clients on reprogramming and, um, kind of working on their mindset to be able to take those shifts.

Michelle: Hmm. I love that. And I knew, I’m pretty sure, first of all, that I found you on Instagram. Yes. So, I stalked you a little bit on Instagram, and I knew as soon as I saw that you were the trust yourself coach, I was like, oh, tell me everything.

I, I feel like this is just something that doesn’t get talked about very much. Sometimes we are the bottleneck in our own business, and we just need to learn how to get out of our own way. And it sounds so straightforward, but I think it’s actually incredibly difficult. You know, it asks us to really dive deep and, um, look inward and that can be challenging.

Uh, and I just appreciate that your, your whole perspective is on. Just acknowledging like sometimes it’s not a strategy problem, so you don’t need to like learn anything else. Yeah. You don’t need to put anything else into action. You just need to go inward. Yeah. How did you come to specialize in this?

Vicky: From doing lots of the practical stuff? From teaching people? All of the practical stuff, and trust me, Michelle, I have literally taught it all. You know, copywriting, website, building signature program, designing how to use social media, how to not use. Social media, like literally the whole shebang, right?

And, and often helping people get started in business as well. Um, which is where I wrote my book all around the kind of mindsets and things that I could see because there’s basic things we all do to set up a business, and particularly health and wellness businesses, you know, who are your ideal clients?

Putting out clear offers, pricing yourself, and then marketing yourself and like you say. There’s lots of strategies, lots of things that we are told we could and should do, but ultimately what I realized was there was a large difference in teaching someone the exact step, step by step of how to write something, you know, write about me page or a sales page for their website, or what strategies for their social media.

Those who were able to. Take the strategy and implement it and do it and see results. And those who were either not able to implement it and got in their own way of just following the steps or were doing the steps but didn’t seem to be getting the same outcome, the same results as other people. And that was the bit that just started to fascinate me.

And I think obviously moving in this kind of era we’re in now with. AI with huge amounts of kind of information. Um, also having two children in the last few years and not feeling like I could possibly keep up with all the strategy of how best to use social media and how best to use your email, all those kind of things.

I couldn’t simply do everything and I actually thought. The, the problem I, I largely see is people know the strategy or they know who to go to for the strategy. They just don’t believe in themselves. They don’t believe there’s a market for it. Mm-hmm. They don’t believe the clients want it. They don’t believe people are willing to pay for it.

There’s beliefs in there, and that was the work that I thought was more, more interesting and more needed to help health and wellness practitioners actually build a really successful business.

Michelle: I’m so happy to hear you say that because when I, I have a signature program called Acupuncture Marketing School, and the second chapter after like marketing basics, like here’s the marketing concepts we should have learned in acupuncture school, but there’s no time.

The next chapter is about mindsets, and I think that mindsets have become so trendy that people sort of stop paying attention, but the reason they’re. At the beginning is because they are so, so important, and there just are so many ways of thinking about ourselves or our clients or the economy or the industry that really get in our way from doing the thing from implementation, like you said.

And I often find that I will. Teach the strategy as you were saying, and then feel just really stymied by why no one is doing anything with it. And I shouldn’t say not no one obviously, but just like it’s so common for people to get caught in this mental web where they have all of these reasons why even they, even though they know.

What to do now. Like, here’s how you update your Google Business profile on a regular basis. I’m like, add a picture every week. And they’re like, well, I couldn’t possibly do that every week. Where am I gonna get those pictures from? I’m like, your phone is the most amazing computer in the palm of your hand.

Like, you could ask ai, what should I take a picture of today in my office to put on my Google business profile? It’ll give you 30 examples. Right. But it’s, it’s just like the, we all have our. Individual are unique barriers. Yes. And then getting past them I think is really challenging. Yes. And you, um, I’m gonna pull up a little blurb from like the back cover of your book.

Yeah. And your book is called Just Start Now. So it says, whether you feel crippled by imposter syndrome, trapped in a cycle of learning, but never serving or stuck with no time to achieve your goals. Vicki is here to show you how to reprogram your mind and start impacting the world’s health in the way that you know that you can.

So it’s like people. They have the, they know they can do it. They know they’re meant to do this work, and we all just need a little bit of help. Myself included. I have plenty of, of blocks that prevent me from like taking the next step in whatever I’m doing. Um, so I love that. What are, what are the strategies that you’re using to help people get out of their own way?

Vicky: So I think the biggest. Way to explain what I do, I, I do it via kind of trust method, so a kind of acronym of the kind of steps that I take. The first thing I get people to do is I say tune in and trace for the T. So really looking at what stories am I telling myself. I take that Google example, you know, each week I need to update and, and add a photo, and my brain is saying, no, you can’t do that.

Well, you, you know, technically you can. So what is the story here? What is the resistance? What are you afraid will happen if you did every week for the next 52 weeks of this year, post a, a new photo and a little caption to your Google profile? What do you think is gonna happen? And if we get honest and we tune in with ourselves, we realize.

There’s a fear there. There’s, there’s a, there’s a reason that we’re kind of resisting. Uh, what if someone criticizes me? What if there is judgment? A, a, a colleague saw it or someone else in the industry and they thought it wasn’t good enough, or, you know, who am I to be posting it? We have this concept here in, um, Ireland that I live is called No the notions.

You’ve got notions about yourself.

Michelle: That

Vicky: can be there. So tuning in and often like tracing that back. Sometimes we know, um, maybe whose voice that might be. Is it a parent? Is it an old boss? Is it a, you know, someone who has good intentions but kind of does seem to heap judgment or criticism on us or, or make us feel kind of self-conscious or a bad experience we’ve had in the past.

So tuning in and tracing, and then for me it’s about understanding. So I go to the U next, understanding that that. Self-doubt and that voice, and not being annoyed about it, but actually showing it lots of compassion and kindness, which I really align with health and wellness. ’cause a lot of us feel, especially with um, you know, our bodies, we get angry and frustrated.

I just want that pain to go away. I just wanna be Yeah. You know. Thinner or faster or whatever it, you know, we wanna hate ourselves into, or discipline ourselves into the way we would like things to be. And we know from a health and wellness perspective that does not work and it’s not sustainable and, hello, ditto.

It’s the same with our business and our mindset as well. We can’t. You know, be angry at ourselves that we have this voice. I don’t call it, um, uh, a kind of inner critic. I call it an inner protector. It’s, it’s part of you that is trying to keep you safe and is doing a fabulous job. Yeah. Unfortunately, that thing and experience that potential risk on the other side.

So I try and get my clients to really. Connect with that part of themselves. We do a visualization to kind of personify that protector that we understand. We thank them, we, we are in dialogue with them. It’s not a voice we can actually shut down and nor should we shut it down completely. It is, you know, human nature to keep us alive and safe from risk, but that we need to dial it down and make sure it’s not, you know, running the show.

And then the way that I help people then implement that once we’ve had that compassion and we are connected to that voice in a more positive way. Is, I like to do experiments, so I like to say, or the r for my trust is re rewrite. So if, if my protector is saying I will be judged if I post those photos on my, my Google.

Okay. What, how, what would I like to be saying to myself? Well, what would be more helpful to be saying to myself instead, every time I’m visible. I attract new clients or you know, some something that you definitely believe, but just is probably very quiet and you don’t say to yourself very often. Great if that’s our new phrase.

Every time I’m visible, I attract new clients or potentially attract new clients, or I’m, you know, something like that. Now I wanna go out and, and collect evidence for that. How can we prove to my brain, to my protector and, and to the kind of, you know, healthier. More confident part of myself that that is the truth.

It’s not true that every time I post myself, I’ll be criticized and judged. Yes, of course, that’s always a possibility, but the the positive side, the flip side is every time I’m visible, every time I post a photo, I have the potential to attract new clients. How can I collect evidence for that? What can I do?

Maybe check some other people’s Google profile, see how it could work for them. You know, find little ways to just reinforce to your brain this new way of thinking. And it’s painful and it’s slow and it feels clunky. It’s challenging, but yeah, and it is, like you said earlier, you know, it’s much easier to go, oh, I’ll just buy a, you know, Google course and someone can just teach me what to do.

But ultimately. It doesn’t matter what course you buy or what training you work with or what expert you get, if those stories still in your head are, if I’m visible, then I will be criticized or judged or whatever, I will fail. You know, so that, that’s my kind of methodology where really that kind of what is the story, understanding and finding compassion for it, rewriting it, and then going out into the real world and, and finding evidence for something that is much more helpful and supportive.

Michelle: Mm. That’s a really nice approach because I think the finding evidence piece is often the part that’s left out, and I’m assuming that’s pretty significant in helping your brain rewire for safety, right, so that it knows it doesn’t have to have that. So I don’t know if you’d call it hyper vigilance, but.

Just like that protection of you all the time.

Vicky: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s the piece, like we said, that that takes a bit of work. That naturally the, the muscle and the, the wiring and the brain is always going to worst case scenario or remember them that awful time before, so don’t go there again. So it does take.

Um, you know, kind of, um, conscious effort to do that. And that’s why I try and turn those little experiments into five minute tasks, 10 minute tasks, things that actually are not highly risky. Um, it’s not necessarily, well, I’m just gonna stick to doing, you know, a photo every week. Actually, it’s. Can I do a bit of research or can I write five ways that actually when I’ve been visible before, in other ways, it has attracted the right kind of clients.

Just like you say that, that rewiring, that gentle, um, compound effect of looking for the right kind of evidence, um, rather than or is defaulting to worst case scenario.

Michelle: How long do you feel like it takes people or is it impossible to condense it into a number?

Vicky: Um, yeah, so it does really vary, doesn’t it?

And if you think about how often we may have heard these stories, um, you know, my, my big one is always, uh, around disappointment. The fear for me is disappointing that if I do something, if I put myself out there, if I create a course, or that I will disappoint people. And unfortunately, for me, that comes from childhood.

That comes from unfortunately feeling or being told that. For many years now, I’ve just turned 40 and you know, that’s several decades worth of brain wiring that needs to be un unpicked. I think what can happen in a fairly short amount of time though, is just that awareness piece that if you are practicing working with a coach or you, you know, kind of consciously trying to change these um, stories.

In the experimental way, not just in a kind of, oh, I put it as an affirmation in my diary, and then hope that magically my brain will change, but actually actively doing something. I think you can see change within a few weeks, even in a small ways, even in a, oh, I started. Seeing more opportunities or you know, more naturally went to a more positive way of thinking.

Or actually when I did that small experiment, another opportunity came up and it made me realize there’s something positive from, from kind of focusing on this more helpful, supportive belief. I’ve got a client and we did our first, uh, one to one session, and sometimes it’s just one tiny thing that you say to that client.

I said this one thing around around judgment and around, um. Her judgment of other people and you know, her fear then of ju receiving judgment. And I said, well, perhaps they, you know, they just don’t know. They don’t know what they don’t know. And she’s like, that’s really stuck with me now and I view people in a different way.

And you know, the kind of fear of judgment has kind of untangled itself a little bit. So. Sometimes you just never know if it can just be that one little shift of perspective. Um, but sometimes the self-doubt is a shapeshifter. It’s very clever at finding ways. Yes. Sneaky right? Really sneaky of being like, right, okay, so you figured out how to get rid of me in this way, so I’m gonna pop up in other way instead and, you know, find another way to get in your way.

I’m not, again, I’m not gonna use sabotage. I will say I will protect you in this way. Yeah. So, yeah, kind of varies. Days. Sometimes it might be a kind of instant, oh, that was a great reframe that I needed. Sometimes it’s gonna take a few weeks on, on months to, to feel That’s your more natural way of thinking and, and aligning your brain.

Michelle: Yeah, and that’s fair. I, I think in Chinese medicine we always say that, you know, if you’ve had back pain for six weeks versus back pain for 10 years, the amount of time that it’s going to take to resolve is gonna be drastically different. Sometimes, right. Taking a quick break to remind you about today’s sponsor, Jane, an all-in-one practice management software and EHR designed for health and wellness practitioners.

If the idea of switching EHRs feels overwhelming, I get it, but with Jane, you are not doing it alone. Their award-winning support team helps transfer your files for you and is available by phone, chat, or email even on Saturdays. Ready to learn more? Visit jane.app to book a demo and use my code Accu School one Mo for a one month Grace period.

The link and the code are in the show notes. All right, back to Vicki’s episode. I find that whenever I am. Like afraid of doing something like new, like taking a big step or even like, maybe it’s a small step, but it feels scary to me, like public speaking, for example. I always really blow out of proportion the negative possibilities of like the things that could go wrong, and then I’d bite the bullet and do the thing.

And realize like, wow, I like my anxiety about this was astronomical compared to

Vicky: the reality.

Michelle: Like the actual activity of doing the thing and the outcome, right? Like it was fine and like no, no one thought I was an idiot. Especially in the public speaking context, right? And it’s so hard to, to like take that step.

But once you do, I think that. Practicing it over and over again becomes way easier because you, you can turn around. I mean, that’s hindsight, right? It’s always more clear. You can turn around and say, wow, I was, I was blowing this out of proportion, and now if I were to do this again, I would know how to do it.

And I would also know that it probably won’t be that scary. And the, I find. We’re all really worried about trolls, like you mentioned, the trolls on the internet, and people in our community who are like, who is this person to, you know, take a stand and say that like, oh, I have something to say. Like, I have something to share.

Especially on the internet, we’re assuming that, you know, the trolls in the comments are gonna shred us, and I find that that actually doesn’t happen a lot with small business owners because they’re so. They are still seen as individuals, right? They’re community members. You’re not like some giant brand like Pepsi that’s faceless.

And then you know, the people are like the

Vicky: keyboard warrior

Michelle: hiding behind their keyboards. Yes, I’m typing like crazy. People can’t see me with the audio, but it’s like when you can hide behind your keyboard and you think it’s a faceless brand, people might say things that they would never say to someone that they consider an individual and a community member who’s contributing.

In their community, like you are a real life person and they know that. And I find by and large, you know, if you take a scary step on the internet, for example, like you publish a, a blog post or for the first time, people are actually usually really supportive and it surprises people. They’re like, wow, I just didn’t expect people to be that be so positive.

It’s like they came out of the woodwork to leave a comment on my blog post and be like, Hey, wow, I didn’t know. I didn’t know you had these thoughts. I didn’t know that you could write. I, I’m so impressed. So it just tends to work out so much better than we’re also imagining.

Vicky: Yeah. And again, that’s because that protective voice is, is doing such

Michelle: a good

Vicky: job.

And you’re right, like. With the, it will say, you are, you’re going to do this. You’re gonna put that blog post out, and the, the, here’s the worst case scenario. And even if, if it’s not that clear it again, we will find out, oh, well, let’s just perfect it first. Let’s tweak a few photos, you know? Mm. Keep you in that safe space away from being out there.

And, and again, we do. Blow out of proportion how much we think people are, you know, paying attention to US care.

Michelle: Right? Yeah. They don’t care that

Vicky: much. They like simultaneously. It’s hard in marketing, isn’t it? ’cause I feel like you simultaneously wanna say people deeply care and need your voice, but simultaneously don’t care so much that if you, you.

Spelt it wrong or didn’t put quite the right research at the bottom of the cre, like no one is going to criticize you. And ultimately, as you become more visible, perhaps as your audience does grow, like there is all the, always the potential when we are business owners and we market ourselves in any way for someone to disagree with what you say, like, unfortunately, that isn’t something we can avoid completely.

It’s the same with me, with my fear of disappointment, like ultimately. I, there is a possibility the more clients I serve that someone will work with me and, and find what I do is not a good fit for them and they’ll be disappointed. I actually had a couple of years ago, someone come back to me after I’d sold them a course almost two years ago, two years before that, and say, could she have her money back please?

Because she was disappointed with the standard of the course. And do you know what? Look, obviously you get that gut punch. Oh my God, she’s, look, this is my worst case scenario. This is everything that my protective voice. Says is going to happen. And uh, you know, in the course of almost a decade now, that’s happened once, right?

And when after the sucker punch and the, you know, kind of 24 hours of reeling with it and talking it out with my husband and reasoning it and everything, I was able to look at it and say. Absolutely nothing she said in it was actually justified. Um, you know, I was able to stand by everything that I’d produced.

I knew that the other 12 people in that course had really enjoyed it, or, you know, had, had, got a lot from it and had launched their businesses off the back of it, that I had delivered everything that I said I was going to, and that I’d actually given her. Further access for free, which at the time, presumably she didn’t think it was rubbish enough that she’d asked for another six months and please could quite had enough time to do it.

But actually what it taught me ultimately was even if the worst does happen. I’m able to handle it, I’m able to respond. I’m able to stand up for myself, like I’m still healer. It’s, it’s not the worst thing in the world. And actually that was a really good lesson to learn. I, I think what can happen, especially when you’re getting started with your marketing, is you may well be watching very large influencers or, you know, kind of the practitioners in the space.

Where they do unfortunately receive that kind of trolling and a kind of

Michelle: cultural Yeah, they have trolls,

Vicky: right? Yeah. And that, that isn’t everyone’s experience and the amount of people that they are helping, but they are not commenting or, and think, but they’re actually having a massive impact. They’re the people we need to focus our, our brain onto and let go of the protective.

I, I can’t do this because of a small amount of people who are not my people. They are, they’re, my work is not for them anyway.

Michelle: Right. Yeah. And I always think about like in the, in the wellness and healthcare space, if you make a statement online, like, uh, a good example is, you know, cold plunges have been so trendy in the past couple of years, and in traditional Chinese medicine like East Asian medicine.

We usually are like begging people to stay warm. Like, like most people’s bodies function best, like when your abdomen is warm and then like your period can be comfortable and regular and your digestion can be comfortable and regular and like keep your shoulders and your neck covered, blah, blah, blah.

Like stay outta the wind. And so I’ve seen so many, like these are bigger people with. Big followings, right? These aren’t just like, Hey, you know, I’m a solopreneur and I have one office and I practice in my community. They will make a statement and they’ll just explain like, here’s why cold plunging maybe isn’t the best fit for everybody according to their Chinese medicine diagnosis, right?

So they’re. Being very clear about like in this lens, here’s why we recommend or don’t recommend this. And you know, like they’ll always get someone in the comments who’s like, well, I just disagree. And they’re like, you know, they have their angry typing voice. I just disagree with you, blah, blah, blah. For these reasons.

And there’s this research. But I actually think like. It’s okay for people to just disagree with you. Yeah. For people to have a different life experience and be like, well, you know what? I’m a female and I cold plunge and my period is fine, and my digestion is fine. And like, okay, like there’s. Uh, I hate this phrase, there’s a thousand ways to skin a cat, right?

Like you, there’s so many ways to approach your own wellness, and it’s okay to have people disagree with you about that on the internet. It’s just that, you know, if we were standing together at a networking meeting and we were two professionals having a conversation, it would probably be, it would feel like.

Calm and respectful and like, oh, here’s why we do this. I’m like, okay, I get it. Here’s why you recommend this. Like we agree to disagree, like cool, and then we go home. But on the internet it’s like you feel like everyone hates you and they’re yelling at you. It’s like the truth is that’s That’s them. Yeah, absolutely.

That’s their own issues, like why they need to be a keyboard warrior, but like people are allowed to disagree with you and as you said, they are simply not your people. And that’s acceptable. Yeah. Like,

Vicky: and that’s it. And especially with the, in, like, it’s great with things like Instagram and social media where you can say you can potentially reach everybody in the world or everyone that has a social media account, but they are not all your client, they’re not all your potential clients.

So

Michelle: you don’t want them

Vicky: all? No, you definitely don’t want them. You be. You could completely flawed, you wouldn’t be able to serve all of them anyway. Like even, even if they did all love you and think everything you said was absolute gospel and brilliant. So you are right. It’s, and I love being able to see practitioners.

I help a lot of people with kind of, um, who are nutritionists and people who help their clients with better relationships with food. So they’ll rally against things like Slimming World we have over here in Europe, probably we have it in. North America and you know, kind of, uh, what used to be Weight Watchers and things like that.

Oh, okay. For some people it creates a really unhealthy relationship with food. And again, there will always be, I can see those kind of dialogues and well, actually, slimming World really helped me and I, you know, I, I’ve lost the weight, feel great, and now I have a better relationship. Like, great, I’m so glad for you.

I’m thrilled. Yeah. But my people, other people who actually that’s had a really detrimental effect on their now obsessing with food, they. Binge, they, you know, struggle to know what to eat. They feel guilty about everything they put in their mouth and what they have in their cupboards. And, and actually it’s, it’s, it’s horrific for their mental health.

So. We are not for everybody. And ultimately, if someone doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t affect your worth, your self-worth what you are doing. Yeah. It doesn’t affect the impact of your, your work, how much you should be charging for it, what you know, what other people are going to get out of it. It doesn’t have any impact on that at all if you’re able to kind of build that bubble around yourself to just allow other people to be other people.

Michelle: Yeah. And I, I do find that the more specific we get. In sharing, you know, since, I mean we’re mostly talking about like the digital world, right? Like on our website, on our social media, in our email newsletters, sharing our specific perspective. And the way that we approach our medicine, like this is how I approach women’s healthcare.

It’s, you know, and I’m gonna expect you to maybe change your diet. Or I ask all of my patients to take herbs. Something like that. Like the more you share that kind of thing, the more you are going to both attract the people who are a good fit for that. And they are the ones who are. Mentally ready to change their diet or take their herbs or make a financial investment in acupuncture, and you maybe will repel the people who are like, oh, heck no.

I’m going to eat whatever I want and I just want you to fix me. Right? If those are not your people, it is better that they don’t show up on your doorstep, but you can’t. It’s sort of like you can’t keep hiding your. Perspective and your unique approach and never talking about it because you’re afraid.

Vicky: Yeah.

Michelle: Of the trolls, when really what you wanna do is talk about it so you can pull in the people who are right for you, and just naturally the others will fall away and that’s okay. They’ll find someone who’s good for them. Yeah.

Vicky: And I think also it can really affect your belief system when you are focusing on that.

Looking at that, looking at all the trials mm-hmm. Looking at the argumentative people, what I find is that builds up this belief that nobody understands it, nobody wants it, no one’s willing to pay for it. Everybody thinks that it’s not good enough or too holistic or, you know, whatever it is that the, you’ve a, a good coaching question I often ask clients is what are you making that mean?

You know, let, let’s see. Someone is, is trolled someone. Is, is, is know that I disagree with cold plunges or I agree with cold plunges. You are wrong. That is a neutral fact. That is a neutral situation. But of course what we do is layer on meaning to it. Oh, well that means everybody good protect, good protective thinking is always black and white.

It’s everyone or no one. Yeah. So tune into that as well, and that means everybody thinks that I’m wrong or everybody will contradict me, you know, or everyone. Thinks that this, this is a, a terrible way to spend their money or that I’m a charlatan or what, whatever belief it is that it’s leaving with you and just being aware of that.

Oh gosh, that’s really interesting. You know? Um. I just shared on my, my substack and my social media that I listen to a lot of kind of true crime podcasts, people that set up businesses, and they’re all complete fraudsters and they’re, you know, selling things that aren’t real and, um, you know, screwing people.

Fascinating. Yeah. Which I love. Like I love it. I love it. And then I’ve realized, oh my goodness, what, what do I make that mean then? That people that make good money in their business are all. Screwing someone over or are lying or are criminals in some way, or are leaving a path of destruction after them.

Like, like it’s, it’s fun, but also what am I making? You know, what, what does that leave me with? And actually, how do I balance that out? How do I tune more into. Um, you know, business owners and people who are doing things really ethically really well. Yeah. Um, and actually I need to amplify that in my feeds, in my, in my head, you know, on my walks and whatever.

It is. Not just the, the, the kind of business is bad and everybody that does it and makes good money is probably. You know, a, a really nasty person because of course, I don’t want to be a nasty person. I don’t want to be viewed like that, and therefore I end up getting in my own way then of putting my business out there.

I think it’s just, it’s fascinating when you start to look at what am I making that mean?

Michelle: Hmm. I do love that question. And you’re, you’re reminding me of something I saw on your website recently that I totally agree with, and that also I think people don’t talk about enough, is that entrepreneurship is.

Challenging because it’s like constant self-development, and I am sort of realizing that it, it never ends like at every level that you get to when you try to introduce something new or build something new, you, you have to. Dial back in, and at least I do. And I always have to ask myself, where am I the bottleneck here because of my own beliefs, like self-limiting beliefs.

And do you feel like it ever ends?

Vicky: No. A client of mine used this phrase, new level, new devil, and I did like, I love it because it, she’s absolutely right. And again, from the, the training that I’ve done is this idea that the protector is a, a shapeshifter and it doesn’t matter if. You know, you are, you are starting or you are, you know, ready to hit the next income goal, or you are ready to open a new practice or hire a, an associate or whatever the next big leap is for you.

There will be a protective story that comes in, um, you know, that you, it, it will fail or that you will lose out sometimes. Often people I find who’ve moved into health and wellness have done it because if they’ve experienced. Burnout or exhaustion or a kind of corporate job that they didn’t wanna be doing before.

And the fear is very real, that they’ll get back to that cycle, won’t have time with their family, it will affect their own health. And so we, you know, we, we stop and we protect ourselves from, from going there. So. No, I’m afraid not. But also good because if we’re aware that that’s the journey we are on, actually the coach who trained me in, in self-belief, um, coaching, said, but isn’t that exciting?

Like, isn’t that powerful? That actually you don’t need anything else or anyone else? You need to just come inside and be like, right. What, what do I need to start believing to make that next level possible for me? What needs to be shifted here or tuned into a bit more? Like, that’s really powerful.

Michelle: Yes. My gosh, what a great perspective.

And I left the new level, new devil. Oh my gosh. I’ll, I can never unhear that. I hope I always, I’ll always have that in the back of my head. Uh, yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think I’m a very introspective person and even though sometimes it’s really challenging, I really appreciate that entrepreneurship can be difficult, and I appreciate that it’s asking me to grow and stretch in ways that.

I think I probably wouldn’t if I had a, a classic nine to five and you know, if you’re in a nine to five, then that will ask you to grow and change in other ways. Right. But I always really appreciate the unique challenges that entrepreneurship brings and how it’s constantly tapping me on the shoulder and being like, Hmm, remember that?

I think we need to check in.

Vicky: Yeah. That’s it. No, and I, I agree with you. Like it’s hard and especially when everyone. Makes it look easy. I say everyone, sorry, that’s a black, white way of looking. But many people in especially the online space or people selling new programs or courses, it’s quick, it’s easy.

Let’s get you fully booked in 90 days. Which unfortunately I find, and especially over the last few years where people have been sucked into that, it only reiterates to them that they can’t trust themselves, that they don’t believe in themselves, something wrong with them if they haven’t magically got fully booked by following this program in 90 days and actually.

That’s why I really, with my, you know, podcast and my Instagram and things, really try and reaffirm it is totally normal to be having worries, to be having wobbles, to be trying to protect yourself in all kinds of, you know, procrastination and, you know, passing, scrolling and be shopping online instead of actually doing the things that will move the needle.

We do it.

Michelle: Oh God, that’s me.

Vicky: That’s it. Everyone goes up. Yeah, that’s it. Kind of. Oh, okay. Like this is a good reason for my time.

Michelle: Research some more sweaters before I do some more work.

Vicky: Yeah. So we all have our way of doing it. I, you know, can file for photos into fold Infinite for smaller and smaller folders to feel very organized.

But it’s not moving the needle. It’s not doing the thing that I need to sit with and go, why am I avoiding doing that thing? What do I think is gonna happen if I. Put that offer out there or change my prices or you know, put the down payment on that, that premises, whatever it is, what am I afraid is gonna happen here?

Um, and just being really curious about that and how you’d like to think and feel instead.

Michelle: Hmm. Yeah, leading with curiosity I think is always a good choice. Well, thank you so much for this. I have one more question for you, and that is, what is your definition of success?

Vicky: Ah, such a good question. I, success for me looks like supporting clients in a way for me, that is emotionally safe, belief shifting and sustainable ultimately.

And I have a family, so success looks like being able to do that and also having time and space without guilt for my family and for my life, and the things that I want to do.

Michelle: Mm. Very nice. Very nice. Well, gosh, I feel like you’ve given us so many golden nuggets and things to think about, but where can people find you online?

How can they get in touch with you? Where can they find your book?

Vicky: Um, so best place to go for everything is vicki shilling.com. So you’ll find links to everything there to my, um, how to work with me to my Instagram, which is Vicki Shilling. Easy defined and the book, which is called Just Start Now, that is available from Amazon, from bookstores.

If you go to your independent bookstore, if you’d prefer that, you can ask them to order it in. That’s possible as well. It’s all listed and it’s available as an audio book as well, which I read, so, uh mm-hmm. Yeah, which was great fun to do. So, um, that’s another way that I know people like to con consume the book.

And also we talked about, I have a little, um, AI tool, a little chat GPT. Yes. If you are interested in this idea of kind of experimenting, thought belief experiments, I call her the, the lab assistant. ’cause it’s all about around experimenting. So the self-trust lab assistant, so go to my website, there’s a banner at the top, um, and you can have a little chat with her.

Tell her where you’re feeling a bit blocked. She’ll help you identify what the belief is around. You know, that’s, that’s protecting you and give you some suggestions of, you know, uh, beliefs to, to focus on instead. And tiny little experiments. You might wanna give a go this week just to see what shifts come.

So that’s another fun little experiment you can do.

Michelle: That is so fun. It’s like a mini Vicky. Yeah,

Vicky: exactly. And then come and voice note me and chat with me on Instagram messages and tell me how you’ve gone.

Michelle: Oh, well thank you so much for this. I really appreciate

Vicky: it. You’re so welcome. Thanks for having me.

Michelle: If you enjoyed today’s episode, I’d love it if you took a quick screenshot while you’re listening and share it to your story on Instagram. And don’t forget to tag me at Michelle Grassic so I can see it and share it back. This helps other acupuncturists and wellness professionals find the show, and together we can grow our communities, support one another, and help more practitioners succeed.

As always, thank you so much for being here. I’ll catch you next time.