Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast Episode #67: Surviving Slow Seasons, TV Appearances, and the Necessity of Community with Roxanne Francis.

Welcome back! This week I’m chatting with Roxanne Francis, award-winning psychotherapist, business coach and owner of a busy group therapy practice in Toronto. 

Roxanne is also the founder of the Therapists’ Lounge, a conference created to support and provide community for solo practitioners. She’s frequently featured in local and national media outlets, including Canada’s well-known Breakfast Television.

In this episode, we discuss the similarities between building an acupuncture practice and building a therapy practice, which includes getting very little marketing education in school, as well as the feeling that you’re left to “figure it out on your own” when you graduate.

💡 Roxanne shares great advice and perspectives to remind us all that we don’t have to be alone on this journey.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • How both therapists and acupuncturists building their practices can benefit from community and support.
  • How Roxanne landed TV appearances that have helped build her therapy practice.
  • Roxanne’s specific advice for pitching to TV producers.
  • Overcoming nervousness in public speaking.
  • How to plan for slow seasons in your practice.
  • Consistency on social media vs. being on social “constantly” and why they are not the same thing.
  • And much more.

I hope you enjoy this gem of an episode with Roxanne!

🎙️ Listen to Episode #67: Surviving Slow Seasons, TV Appearances, and the Necessity of Community with Roxanne Francis

Show Notes:

This Episode is Sponsored by AcuHub:

AcuHub provides remote receptionists specifically for acupuncture practices. I use AcuHub in my practice and I love it! 💙

With AcuHub, you can rely on a dedicated one or two US-based, highly trained receptionists to answer incoming calls and inquiries, schedule appointments on your  EHR software, onboard new patients, and answer questions specific to your practice.

AcuHub offers month-to-month services with no contracts or termination fees, with rates between just $5-$8 per hour depending on the size of your practice. 

Save time and money with your own dedicated Acuhub receptionist. 

Visit Acu-hub.com to learn more.

Subscribe to the Acupuncture Marketing School podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

 💖 Love the podcast? Help other acupuncturists find the podcast by leaving a review here.

Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:05):

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:33):

Hello there. Welcome back. This week I’m chatting with Roxanne Francis, an award-winning psychotherapist and business coach based in Toronto. She’s the CEO of Francis Psychotherapy & Consulting, where she runs a busy group therapy practice with her team, and she’s also the founder of The Therapist Lounge, a conference created to support and provide community for solo practitioners. She’s also frequently featured in local and national media outlets, including Canada’s well-known Breakfast Television. In this episode, we cover so much ground. We discuss the similarities between building an acupuncture practice and building a therapy practice, which unfortunately both include getting very little marketing education in school, as well as that feeling that you’re left to figure it all out on your own when you graduate.

(01:22):

We also talk about how both therapists and acupuncturists and really all wellness providers can benefit from a community and support how TV appearances have helped to build Roxanne’s therapy practice through credibility and visibility, Roxanne’s specific advice for pitching to TV producers, overcoming nervousness in public speaking, how to plan for slow seasons in your practice, and why consistency on social media and being on social media constantly are not the same thing and much more. So I hope you really enjoy this gem of an episode with Roxanne.

[ACUHUB] (01:59):

This episode is sponsored by AcuHub, your personal remote reception team. I use AcuHub at my practice in, I absolutely love it. AcuHub works with acupuncture and chiropractic clinics across the US and Canada. So whether you have a solo practice or multiple practitioners, AcuHub can be your only receptionist if you’d like, or they can work in conjunction with your on-the-ground front desk team to offer additional support, For example, freeing up valuable time for your in-person office staff to complete other tasks with fewer interruptions. When working with AcuHub, you can rely on a dedicated one or two US-based, highly trained receptionists to answer incoming calls and inquiries, schedule appointments in your EHR, onboard new patients and answer questions specific to your practice. AcuHub offers month-to-month services with no contracts or termination fees with rates between just $8 and $8 per hour, depending on the size of your practice. Save time and money with your own dedicated AcuHub receptionist. Visit acu-hub.com to learn more, and I will put the link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] ()3:19):

Alright, let’s dive into today’s episode with Roxanne. Hello, Roxanne. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (03:27):

Of course. It’s my pleasure.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (03:30):

I know you are super busy, you have so many businesses and amazing projects going on. I’m really excited to talk to you about, maybe not all of them, but most of them would be great.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (03:40):

Yeah, for sure.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (03:41):

You are a psychotherapist in Canada. You also have The Therapist Lounge, which I can’t wait to talk about where you support other therapists because, I feel like the phrase therapists need therapy too or they need support, they need community. And I think the same is true for acupuncture. So there’s going to be so many wonderful parallels between everything that you offer and acupuncture as well today. And you’re a business coach as well, correct?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (04:08):

I am, yeah. I also coach and support, I guess, newer therapists in the field, or therapists who feel that they need some support along the way.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (04:16):

Can you tell us about The Therapists Lounge?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (04:18):

Yeah, for sure. So the Therapists Lounge is an event that I created for counselors or psychotherapists who, actually, I’ll tell you why I started it. It actually happened as we were sort of coming out of the pandemic. The pandemic had us all sequestered in our homes and providing counseling virtually. And for the long, a long time, I just thought to myself, I miss my friends. This is very lonely. I never see anyone. We were crawling out of the pandemic where I was living, people needed vaccines to go where, there people were still wearing masks. I thought, I think a few of us should just get together. Some people were a little bit nervous, and I just went to a restaurant and I said, I want to do a high tea. I just want to book this room and I’m just going to create an event and see what happens. I was able to sell about 20 tickets, that was the first event. People came and I was a speaker and I spoke about burnout and we had some dark humor, and people were just so excited to actually see each other in person.

(05:28):

It was such a small event, I thought nothing of it but people started posting it all over social media. I kept hearing, “Oh my goodness, I can’t believe I missed this. When is the next one?” So I thought, huh, that’s really interesting. So I randomly picked a date for the next time and I started asking people, what do you need support for? So I started doing some market research, but also because I support other therapists in the field, a lot of what I was getting was that people were burning out. They weren’t taking care of themselves, so they needed wellness support and advice. But also people kept asking me about finance, about legal, about contracts, about marketing, about social media, and I thought, no one is out here offering any business support to any of these therapists. So people are going to grad school and they’re getting all of this knowledge about how to support people with anxiety and depression and then the schools are just saying, go forth and heal the world. And everyone’s coming to me like, how, how do I get clients? What about taxes? I need a contract. What do I do? So, in my entrepreneurial journey, I have paid for some really, really great support and so I just reached back to some people in my bag of resources and said, “Hey, so I’m going to do this thing, and I’m wondering if you could come and talk for 15 minutes, just tell the people.” So the second one was born and I got an event planner to help me because I’m not very good in that area

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (07:03):

Me either.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (07:04):

It was phenomenal and I got a little bit of a media coverage and it just mushroomed from there and then it’s just gotten bigger. And every time I have an event, everyone keeps saying, when is the next one? So I don’t know how this is going to all unfold, but one thing is for sure, The Therapist Lounge is sorely needed. People keep coming saying there’s nothing like this anywhere. We have wellness experts, we have the last one, we had a massage therapist. The previous one, we had a chiropractor. Like, we just are providing supports for people that don’t seem to exist anywhere.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (07:45):

I feel like acupuncturists desperately need The Therapist Lounge.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (07:50):

Yes, yes, come on through.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (07:52):

You could come launch an acupuncturist lounge and I think it would be really well attended. And you are based in Toronto, is that correct?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (08:00):

I am, that’s correct.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (08:01):

Oh my gosh, there’s so many incredible acupuncturists in Toronto in that area. Acupuncturists have a very similar situation where we graduate from school and they’re just like, “Go forth and heal everyone,” and you have absolutely no idea how to get patients. And you have all this debt and you have no income for a little while, while you’re working on things. I think it is refreshing and helpful to hear that we are not the only profession that this happens to. I mean, I think it’s common in a lot of the wellness entrepreneur professions, unfortunately. And I also feel like a lot of the marketing and practice management that’s taught for one profession rolls over into the others. Like good marketing advice is almost always good marketing advice across the board. Is that something that you’re also helping people with their marketing?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (08:56):

Yes, yes. Definitely, definitely. I mean, I’m not a marketing specialist, which is one of the reasons why I listen to this podcast, but I do tell people that there are some things that I know, but I do not know everything. That being said, if you’re open to it, I’m glad to share what has worked for me and what I know. Yeah, that’s what I do

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (09:14):

I think there’s really something profound about getting that advice from someone who has been in the trenches, who knows the experience of building something from nothing, especially in your particular profession and they can say when I was coming up to this, this is what was worth my time and energy. So even, I have so many guests on the podcast who just have successful businesses and it’s like it doesn’t even matter if they consider themselves marketing experts. They really are because they’ve been there and then their feedback is so educational for other people. And I think even if you’re pretty well established. And you have a good number of patients, it’s inspiring to hear what works for others because you think, oh, I never would’ve thought of that by myself. I never would’ve applied it that way.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (10:05):

Right. It’s one of the reasons why I love the Therapists Lounge, because it’s also a wonderful networking event, and people get together and they meet people and then they go for lunch together and they learn things from each other. It’s always great. I always say, you get the wisest result when you get everyone’s wisdom.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (10:25):

I love that.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (10:26):

Yeah.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (10:28):

I saw on your Instagram account you had a really nice reel, and I think the cover title was something like, entrepreneurship is tough, but so are you.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (10:36):

Yeah, that’s right

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (10:38):

Yeah, and you talked about how helpful it is to get together with others, exactly like you’re describing and hear the behind-the-scenes of other people’s businesses and then you sort of realize you’re not alone, other people have been there before you, there are people who can help you. And people need that reminder because as you said, it can be so lonely to be in a solo wellness profession.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (11:01):

100%. It’s lonely and it’s difficult. When you are doing this thing by yourself and you have a really bad day, or the bank tells you no, or something bad happens with taxes, or it’s a season in the year, and maybe you’re new at this and suddenly your clients all go bye-bye and you’re wondering if you are falling down, well, the truth of the matter is, if you get around with five other people who are like two steps ahead of you, they’ll say, this happens every year at this time of the year. So here’s what you need to do to prepare for that. And I also think that sometimes social media can, I think we all know this, but sometimes social media can do us a disservice because we see people doing well. We see people who have these great businesses. And it’s one of the reasons why in my stories on Instagram, I will say, when I’m having a bad day, I will say, when this thing happened, or I cried today, or I had to call such and such for advice because people need to know that this is real and we are real people. And your business isn’t failing because you’ve had a bad week or because you’ve had a bad month or a bad day, or you’ve been rejected, or somebody has told you no, or your client says, I don’t want you anymore. Like, these are the real things of business. But if no one tells you. If everyone keeps it a secret, you think that you are failing.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (12:27):

Yeah, we always think there’s something wrong with us as individuals. I was talking to an acupuncturist recently and she said something to the effect of, I get new patients and I really think I am doing a good job. She’s like, I try to be honest with myself about evaluating if it went well or not and she’s like, sometimes people just disappear. I never hear from them again. I get positive feedback from them, I think they’re having a great experience, they come two or three times and then they’re just gone forever. She’s like, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong, and I’m like, well, I’ve been doing this for 13 years and sometimes that is just the case. People, they have such good intentions, they’re like, “I’m going to give you a call,” and then it doesn’t matter how many times you contact them or how many avenues, they’re just, they disappear. They’re in the ether.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (13:19):

They disappear, and oftentimes it has nothing to do with you.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (13:22):

Yes.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (13:23):

A tell therapist, clients move, they get sick, they get married, like the jobs change, all kinds of things happen. I always give this example, a few years ago I had a patient or slash client who came to me. We were doing some really great work, and we were talking about a relationship that was in her life and I asked her a question about the relationship, and then I didn’t hear from her again. I thought, oh, that’s weird. What did I do? Like, what happened? Then about a year and a half later, she called back in and didn’t have the intake and showed up. She said, “I didn’t make you notice, my background is different. You had asked me a question about a close relationship, and I wasn’t ready to face the truth of that. I had to go away and really think about that and when I came to terms with that, I realized I couldn’t be in this relationship anymore.” So she, her whole life changed, and then she was ready to come back to therapy. So sometimes, sometimes it’s not you, it’s them.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (14:29):

Yes, I try to remind people of that. And I think I agree with the idea that like, they move, they’re overwhelmed by taking care of elderly parents. It’s like we take on the responsibility of their disappearance and then we bump into them at the grocery store and they’re just like, “Oh, X, Y, Z happened. I miss you.” And you’re, “Oh, wow.” So once you’ve had that experience a couple times, you have the bigger picture and you can let it go when it happens, but especially if you’re newer in practice, I think that it can be so disheartening.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (14:59):

Totally.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (14:59):

You had mentioned surviving slow seasons. I’m really curious what advice you give people for that?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (15:10):

I invite people to pay attention to their fee or their pricing and sort of build in a little bit of a buffer in that pricing, because I’m not sure what your, what it’s like in the acupuncture world, but in the psychotherapy world, particularly where I live, where we get a lot of months of winter, in the summertime, the sun comes out and fixes everyone’s ails.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (15:38):

Acupuncture’s similar.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (15:40):

Really? Okay. People go on vacation, they go to the beach, they hang out, nobody wants therapy. So I invite people to either consider to using that time to go on vacation as well, slow down on their business, or I’ll, some people, I encourage them to do things like run workshops or groups. I had one person who did a lot of work with young children. So I encouraged her in the tail end of the spring to send a newsletter to all the parents saying, are you going on vacation with your child? Do you find that these behaviors happen while you’re going on vacation? Well, at the beginning of the summer, I’m going to have this series to help you with your parenting over the course of the summer. So she was able to follow through on that and make some money to help tide her over the course of the summer. Maybe you can collaborate with someone, do some special or offer workshops to the library or summer camps so that you can offer a different service other than just the one-on-one. Because I say to therapists all the time, whether or not you’re actually working, your bills are disrespectful and they will show up whether or not you invite them. So you may as well prepare.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (17:01):

Yes. That is such a great idea. I do think that’s the thing that requires preparation in advance. So even now, we’re recording this in December, like the start of the new year is a great time to think about brainstorming. As acupuncturists, what could we offer that’s similar, like a workshop at the end of spring. If you feel like summer’s slow, I know summer’s a little slow at my practice, I think the vitamin D from the sun just has such a huge impact on people and they really feel better and usual and they just are like, yeah, I’m good. I don’t need acupuncture. I’m like, well, really should, please keep coming back. Like, it’s cumulative. I’m glad you feel great. But yeah, I think a lot of acupuncturists see a very similar dip as well.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (17:49):

I encourage people to, outside of the courses and so on, to also build it into their pricing and save a little bit so that when the dollars are slower to come in during the summer, you have a little bit extra.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (18:02):

Yeah, it reminds me of thinking about finances the way a teacher might, because as far as I know, teachers can choose to divide up their paycheck and keep getting paid over the summer or they can keep it all when they’re teaching and then they have nothing in the summer. So in that case, you’ve got to save, got to make a plan

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (18:21):

100%. It can’t just be day to day. You do have to make a plan.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (18:27):

Yes. Someone asked me recently, I think it was for studentloan.gov, they were like, what is the frequency of your paychecks? I was like, people give me cash every day. I don’t understand the question. Like, I don’t, I’m like, biweekly, biweekly is the answer,

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (18:46):

Yes, yes, such is the life.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (18:49):

So you have been on Breakfast Television, which is a national morning show in Canada multiple times and I’m so curious, are you a regular guest they bring you in occasionally or you’re on there like every week?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (19:03):

Yeah. So yes, it is a fairly popular morning show. I would say it’s something probably similar to the Today Show, if you will. Initially, when they asked me to come on, it was just to speak to, I think I came on because there’s a day in February that’s celebrated, I guess, here in Canada, it’s a mental health day basically. It’s a day where people talk about mental wellness and so they brought me on to talk about that, but also to talk about children, because at that time in my practice, I worked with a lot of children. So they asked me to come on to talk about children’s anxiety and parenting and then during the pandemic that took off because children were not, well, parents didn’t know what to do. So I was doing a lot of virtual guest TV appearances. And we’re actually just now working on some arrangement for me to come on maybe once a month, but before that, I would say that I was not the person who came on TV when things were well. I was the person that they called when everything was hitting the fan, when bad things were happening in the new, how do I talk about to my children about such and such? This person in the entertainment industry is no longer with us. How do we navigate that? Men’s mental health or mental health awareness month. I was just on the other day around navigating grief and loneliness during the holidays when it’s the season of happy and bright. So I’m on fairly regularly just based on what goes on in the world, but we’re just now in the process of trying to formalize something in terms of a very steady frequency.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (20:45):

Wonderful. I just saw on Instagram, because I’m not in Canada, so I don’t get this television show, but I saw your piece on mental health during the holiday season. So how did you originally make the connection to be invited to do that? Because I think that a lot of acupuncturists would love to have that visibility and build their brand that way. I’m sure a lot of people feel terrified by the idea being on national television, fair, but it’s also, there are lots of people that they could choose. It’s intimidating for people to even feel like it could be possible for them. Does that make sense?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (21:24):

100%. It definitely makes sense. I will tell you this, it’s, one of the things that I love about your podcast, you talk about the different ways of marketing. I will try to tell this long story, very, very short, it actually started because of something just like this. I was talking about wellness on Instagram. I was talking about taking care of your children. I was talking about how to recognize signs of poor mental health and a distant colleague of mine who we would chat in the DMs every once in a while, she had connections to the media, but before the whole, before the media, she has a very large following of mothers and she said, I would like to do a live that I want to do an interview with you for moms, and I’m going to put it on my Facebook channel.

(22:11):

So we had a really, really great conversation. Then we just started chatting back and forth in the DMs and then one day I was in the grocery store and I came out and looked at my phone and there was an email saying, someone from a particular show is looking for a therapist to talk about mental health. I emailed two people, including, well as well as yourself, and I guess the first person who responds to them will get the spot. I emailed them so fast, I replied, and I said, “I volunteer.” I had never been on TV before, but I just thought, it can’t be much different from an Instagram live because it was going to be virtual. So I went into my stories and I said, this blazer, or that blazer. It tried to get people all excited with me. I showed up and I tried to present as my most articulate self. Then they asked me back and then of course the pandemic hit, things started to go sideways, and then they asked me back and it just snowballed from there.

(23:21):

At one point, I will say I was going mostly with a particular news station, and they had stopped calling and I couldn’t figure out why, and so I connect with a friend who knows someone who’s in PR and I said, “Do you have any idea what’s going on?” She looked at all my videos, she said, “No, that looks, it looks fine to me. I don’t know what’s going on, but I have a connection with some producers. I can throw your name around if you want to.” I said, “Yes, please.” She did that and nd more producers started calling me. She would say to me, sometimes you need to pitch them instead of waiting for them to call you and so I started pitching them ideas, “Hey, such and such is happening. Have you ever thought of this angle?” Then they would say, “Hey, that’s brilliant. Can you come on on Thursday at, it’s always early in the morning?” And I would say, sure. Then now it’s gotten to the point where I don’t need to pitch them anymore. They just start showing up in my inbox or they will call me or text and I’m really, really grateful because when I show up on these shows, there isn’t, it’s not monetized. They don’t pay me to show up because I guess that’s against their journalistic integrity, but I do find that it’s a way of marketing. So every time I show up, the analytics on my website go crazy, I get a million followers on my social, well, not a million, but a few, and we would get a spike in our intake calls and people will say, “I saw Roxanne on TV and it made me think that I need to address such and such in my mental health.”

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (24:47):

So when you are pitching the producers, or when you used to, do you feel like you really had to have the introduction from your mutual acquaintance first, so it’s not necessarily like we could cold pitch producers if we found their email online? Because People are always asking me, how do I get like a media appearance, which I have never had. So I can read things online, but it’s always better to ask people who’ve done it

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (25:15):

I think you can cold-pitch producers. I have done that in the past and I’ve done so successfully. I think you need to let producers know, yes, who you are. You want to see, they want to see the credentials or that you are, you have expertise in what it is that you do, but also, I think it’s important for you to show them why their viewers are going to be interested in you. This isn’t about you being amazing. This is about knowing their audience and maybe taking a look at some of their broadcasts or their shows to see what are some of the things, who are some of the guests that they have on there? Like, I’m not going to show up on an automotive broadcast because that just doesn’t fit. But the morning television where moms are at home with their kids or parents of teenagers or burnt-out workers who are maybe on a stress leave, these are people who are watching the shows in the morning, or people getting ready for work, trying to get the lunchboxes and the bags before they head out the door. These are the people who are watching.

(26:18):

So how does what I have to say fit in with their audience? How will their audience benefit? I think those are things that producers are interested in. And I think it just so happens that we are in a season of our lives where wellness is of the utmost importance and people are looking for ways to get well, there are people who are hurting physically and mentally. And so I think your audience, if people are acupuncturists and they are looking to get into the media, I would say yes, cold-pitch the producers. Talk to them about the population that you serve. If you’ve spoken anywhere before, you want to let them know about that. If you’ve been interviewed by anyone, maybe send them a clip or a link to what it is that you’ve done and talk about how you, how the information that you are going to bring will impact their viewers or their readership.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (27:14):

Gotcha. So it’s better to be specific it sounds like, to say this thing is happening in the world and here’s how I would apply Chinese medicine or acupuncture to this, and this is how your viewers benefit?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (27:27):

100%. It’s really important to be specific. It’s even, I think it will also be helpful if you pay attention to the news cycle, which goes really, really fast. You don’t want to pitch today about something that was happening in the news last month because things go by really, really fast. No one has a long attention span anymore. We live in TikTok era. So you really want to pay attention to what’s been going on in the news this week, yesterday and pay attention to that and send in your pitch. As soon as you think of it, put it together and send it out.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (28:06):

So it sounds like you didn’t have to use HARO, Help A Reporter Out? Are you familiar with that?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (28:12):

No.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (28:13):

Okay. Help A Reporter Out is where you can register and put your expertise up there and then if people, if the reporters have a specific topic question and they’re looking for expertise then they can scroll through and they might select you. But it sounds like that’s more like a waiting game, what you’re talking about is much more proactive, which is what your friend was saying, don’t just sit and wait.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (28:37):

Right. I have had, part of the work that I do as well is I do organizational consultation. So I will go in and talk to groups of staff about a particular thing as it relates to mental health. I will tell you that not only have I pitched to the media, but when I actually do land media, I then put the clips on social and people have reached out to me based on just that, based on the clips. I’ve been able to develop a different stream of income just because I have posted the replays of that clip online.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (29:12):

I’m always trying to remind people that it’s not like showing off.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (29:18 ):

No.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (29:18):

If you’ve done something amazing, if you’ve done some public speaking or you received an award, like, please share that on social media and on your website because that builds so much authority and credibility.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (29:30):

Yes, and credibility, yes.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (29:30):

Which makes people want to say yes to you. And then it just snowballs and snowballs. And I’m sure this is true for other wellness entrepreneurs beside acupuncturists, but we tend to feel like we can’t toot our own horn. Like it really doesn’t feel good, who am I to do this sort of thing. But I am sure that everyone has a really genuine audience, for example, on their email subscriber list and on social media of people who are willing to celebrate those wins with you and then they’re out there in the world for other people who are looking for your specific expertise.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (30:06):

Definitely. Definitely. I think it pays to show people what you have done and people who know you will recognize that you’re not showing off. If you have a social media account, people who’ve been following you, so to speak, they will get to understand who you are and trust you and they will recognize that you are not showing off and they will celebrate with you.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (30:28):

Yeah, they’re your biggest supporters in some ways. Do you feel like it took you a little while to feel cool and comfortable, like being on television or doing public speaking?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (30:42):

Oh my goodness, the first couple of times I was on television, it was virtual. They were in studio and I was at home. I honestly thought that they could hear my heart beating on the other side of the monitor.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (30:58):

I love it.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (31:01):

I was so, like, I knew what to say, I knew what I was talking about, but I was so nervous.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (31:10):

I can only imagine.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (31:11):

But I would, friends would watch on tv or I would send them the clips and they would say, we can’t tell. You seem, we can’t tell what’s going on inside. So I would just let that let that sit with me. So I would say, even today, I still get not as nervous as before, but I still get a little jittery, particularly when it’s in studio. And there’s only like a 30 second delay. There’s not much. So I would sit there and they would say, “Okay, five seconds,” and my heart goes right. Then I go, okay, it’s fine. It’s fine. You’re fine. You’re good. You know what to say. Then I start talking and then eventually it goes away. But particularly when I remember when I’m talking to clients who have anxiety, I often let them know that the more you do a thing, the more the anxiety goes away.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (32:01):

Yes. Sometimes I will have this discussion about PR and media appearances with marketing students or marketing clients and it just feels so far out of their wheelhouse. Like they can’t imagine being cool and collected in a blazer on national television. I remind them that that’s not necessarily where it begins. We’re not just going to dump you into national TV. It’ll probably be the sort of thing where you’re working up gradually. And public speaking even on the internet gets easier with time. I am such an introvert. It took me a very long time to decide to launch a podcast, to put my voice out there and to be willing to be interviewed by other people and it definitely has improved with time. So I hope that really encourages people who feel like they have something really powerful and important to share that could help others. But they feel nervous about the visibility piece and the public speaking. You’re going to go step by step and it’s going to get better.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (33:02):

It’s going to get better. It will only get better the more you do it. It will get better. It will become a part of, it will just become a part of what you do. I would never have guessed that you get nervous. Your podcast is phenomenal.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (33:15):

Oh, thank you. I feel like I get to be at home sometimes in my pajamas and that helps a lot.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (33:22):

I’m sure it does.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (33:24):

For people thinking it’s like cool and collected. So I’m really curious, what marketing do you feel is working well for the therapist that you’re coaching right now to build their practices?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (33:36):

So the marketing that’s working for the people who work with me?

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (33:40):

Yeah.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (33:40):

So social media works for them.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (33:43):

Okay, wonderful.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (33:43):

And on social media particularly talking about what they know. Oftentimes people will want to only put up statistics, which is great, or only put up tips, which is also awesome. But people also want to know who you are. In the social media world, they like to talk about that know, like and trust factor. People have to feel like they know you, that they like you and that they can trust you. But when you sort of show up with your face and use your voice and you talk to people about the thing, it’s almost as though you’re speaking into their life. When you show up, what has been working for the therapist that I work with is consistency. You don’t have to show up on social or network or do those things constantly. But when it’s consistent with some regularity, you’ll start to be top of mind for people.

(34:45):

So you may not get clients right away because we know marketing is one of those things that pays you a little bit later. You might not get clients right away, but you’ll be top of mind when someone says, “My niece is struggling with this and this.” They’ll say, “I know who you should talk to. This person should, I see this person all the time and they’re brilliant and they’re so relatable and they’re so kind.” So showing up the consistency definitely pays off. Vlogging works for the therapists that I support. Showing up also on LinkedIn of all places. A lot of my clinicians will say, but LinkedIn is for people who are looking for a job. I would say, well, those people who are either looking for a job or they’re the CEOs or the VPs, they struggle with whatever it is. They struggle with pain, they struggle with anxiety, they struggle with parenting or grief. So if you show up and you say, here are some things that you need to pay attention to, because that’s where they hang out. You’re going to, you’re coming straight to them. So that works as well.

(35:57):

Community works as well. Showing up in the community. So I have encouraged my clients to go to their local library, ask them, have you ever had a mental health workshop or a symposium? What if I show up on a Saturday morning and I use that space over there for an hour? Would you allow me to hand out my business cards at no charge to you or your patrons? That’s something that they would be open to. Collaborating with, I’m not sure what it’s like where you are, but going to an urgent care center and finding out from the, the manager there who do you refer, who do the, who the physicians here refer to when it comes to this thing or that thing? Is it okay if I leave my business cards or our flyer or brochure here? I’m not sure if when you have waiting rooms where you are, if you have those giant TVs that scroll with health information. Find out. How much does it cost to get my face up there, to get my logo up there.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (37:01):

So smart. Oh gosh. I love that.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (37:04):

Those are some things that we talk about.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (37:07):

I also really appreciate that you said you don’t have to show up on social media constantly, but you have to be there consistently. I think that people are confusing the two things and they are afraid that consistently, which could be once or twice a week, means that they have to be on Instagram for example, all day long interacting with people, posting on stories that they can never put their phone down or take a break or they have to overshare in order to be successful. But the constantly piece is very draining. It leads to burnout. So I don’t recommend that. But the consistency can look very different from that. So I think that’s a relief for people to hear.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (37:48):

Yeah, I think showing up in a way that’s regular. I don’t know much about the algorithm, but I would imagine that when the algorithm sees you on a regular basis, it will start to show your content.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (37:59):

Yes, for sure.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (38:00):

Yeah, who has time to be on social media all day every day? We have real lives. We have real patients. We’ve got things to do,

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (38:08):

Things to do. Exactly. So I have one more question for you and that is, what is your definition of success?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (38:16):

Oh gosh. I think my personal definition of success is getting to do what you love on your own terms. I think when you do what you love in a way that you love it, it will bring your clients and patients to you. I think they will see that and you will enjoy it. I remember when I was working at a nine to five job, I used to think to myself, I need to get out of here because I want to be able to work on my own terms and have all this time off and whatever. When I started entrepreneurship, I began to realize that I was sometimes working harder than I was at my nine to five, but I loved it. I was working at it with so much passion and I was excited about it. So that was success for me.

(39:12):

So even if I have to create a workshop and I’m working on it after my kids go to bed, it’s something that I love and I love the finished product and I love delivering it. It brings me a feeling of success. Success doesn’t mean, well for me at least, it doesn’t mean having all the zeros in my bank account. It doesn’t mean working a four-hour work week. It doesn’t, but it does mean that, I have two little boys, and it does allow for me to work on my own terms so that I carve out an hour when they get home from school, I’m available for them for a certain amount of time and then after that they know that they have to do their homework and mommy have to see a patient. But it allows me to do the work on my own terms and it really does fill my cup.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (40:01):

I just love that. Doing what you love on your own terms, I think that really is magnetic, as you said, it draws people towards you. Thank you so much for your insights today. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. Where can we find you online? Where can people connect with you?

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (40:19):

Yes, most definitely. So I hang out on the internet http://www.francispsychotherapy.com and you can find me on Instagram at Francis Psychotherapy. You can also search my name Roxanne Francis on LinkedIn. And you might find me a little bit, I have a very small presence on TikTok at Francis Psychotherapy, but I just don’t have the time to handle all of the social media. I have limits, but you can find me. Just search my name

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (40:48):

Yeah, you have real things to do.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (40:49):

I have real life things to do, exactly.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (40:53):

Well, thank you again, so much.

[ROXANNE FRANCIS] (40:56):

I have loved this conversation. Thank you.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (40:59):

My pleasure. Me too.

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (40:59):

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