Thumbnail photo of Julie Bear Don't Walk with the text, Episode 60: Give Your Practice a TCM Treatment with Business Coach Julie Bear Don't Walk

This week I’m chatting with acupuncturist and business coach, Julie Bear Don’t Walk.

Julie has been a business coach in our industry for many years, as well as a successful practice owner.

Whether you’re a solo practitioner looking to increase patient numbers, or you’re ready to scale and hire more practitioners, Julie has great advice to share.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • How she grew her practice from a one-person show seeing 35 patients a week to a staff of eight helping over 150 patients a week
  • How her approach to business coaching is like applying a TCM treatment to your practice
  • Why internal systems are essential before applying marketing to your practice
  • How you can increase your capacity for seeing more patients without feeling burnt out
  • And much more

Enjoy this conversation with Julie!

Listen to Episode #60: Give Your Practice a TCM Treatment with Julie Bear Don’t Walk

Show Notes:

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Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:04)

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:33)

Welcome back. Today I’m chatting with acupuncturist and business coach, Julie Bear Don’t Walk and, in this episode, we talk about how she grew her practice from a one-person show, seeing 35 patients a week to a staff of eight, helping over 150 patients a week. We also talk about how her approach to business coaching is like applying a TCM treatment to your practice and how you can increase your capacity for seeing more patients without feeling burnt out, and much more. Enjoy.

(01:04)

Hello, Julie. Welcome. How are you?

[JULIE BEAR] (01:09)

I’m well, Michelle. Thank you so much for having me on.

[MICHELLE] (01:12)

Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. I am really excited to chat with you. I have seen you in the acupuncture internet space for such a long time, so this is pretty thrilling to have you here in person.

[JULIE] (01:25)

Thank you. Likewise.

[MICHELLE] (01:27)

I know that you are a very successful acupuncture practice owner. You run a practice in Kansas, correct?

[JULIE] (01:34)

Yep, Lawrence, Kansas.

[MICHELLE] (01:36)

Very nice. And you have, is it seven or eight employees?

[JULIE] (01:40)

Let’s see, I have seven in addition to me, so three associates, a part-time operations person and office manager, and two office assistants.

[MICHELLE] (01:51)

I’m very excited to talk to you about that. In addition, you are also an acupuncture business coach and you’ve been doing that for quite a long time as well?

[JULIE] (02:00)

I have, yeah. A little more intentionally over the last three years and then in February actually I shifted away from seeing patients directly to focus on coaching because that felt, my heart was like, this is how you’re going to fulfill your commitment in the world of helping more people by helping practitioners have healthy businesses.

[MICHELLE] (02:21)

I love that perspective that maybe choosing a career path should be about how we fulfill a commitment to the world. That is a beautiful thing.

[JULIE] (02:31)

Thank you.

[MICHELLE] (02:32)

I also really appreciate that the way you approach business coaching is to sort of apply a TCM treatment to a person’s business. So let’s get started with that. What does that mean? What does that look like?

[JULIE] (02:45)

So it’s interesting. I hired my first coach in 2017. It was great. I was like, holy crap. I was in a position, my husband was going back to graduate school to become a therapist, my kid had just started private school because school in Kansas are terrible and I was like, I’m seeing 35 patients a week, I got to make this work. I am the sole provider right now. So I hired a coach, Chris Axelrod, who’s great, and I got busy and I was like, oh my God, I didn’t know I could do this. I didn’t know I could like make a good living. Then I got really busy and then I got burned out and I was like, okay, this isn’t, here’s a bonus, but I’m committed to Chinese medicine and how do I like make these things mesh.

(03:33)

So in odd timing, right after the pandemic started, I reached out to Jade Connolly Duggan, whose parents founded, were two of the founders of Tai Sophia, which is a five element school now Maryland University of Integrative Health. They had a program called Transformational Leadership that was rooted in Chinese medicine principles. Since that incarnation of the school closed, Jade continued teaching those principles. Jade’s trained as an acupuncturist, though she does not practice as an acupuncturist. She does organizational development and consulting for often corporations. But I started a one-on-one apprenticeship with her in April of 2020, took a leap, and I didn’t even know what I was doing, but I was like, you talk about the five elements and you talk about business and this resonates so deeply.

(04:25)

So it’s really like, I just decided I’m still, I want to do Chinese medicine. I want to scale it up. That year also, I think I had chosen a word for the year of quantum and I was like, I don’t even, it’s quantum. That’s my word of the year. What I realized is that I want to help a lot of people with Chinese medicine, but that doesn’t mean I need to physically touch everybody in order to do that. And I continued to work with Jade on a weekly, like apprenticeship basis, incorporating those five element skills into healthy businesses. So that was really my desire to practice Chinese medicine, merged with my desire to really help people have healthy businesses because that’s going to make a big impact in the world.

[MICHELLE] (05:16)

Oh, I have so many questions. Let’s unpack. I guess I’d love to start with your on-the-ground practice. So you had 35 patients a week, which is a very healthy practice and then you started working with Chris Axelrod, who I have also seen all over the internet in the acupuncture space for a long time, and it sounds like you grew exponentially very quickly. What was the timeframe for working with him and then suddenly having more patients than you could handle?

[JULIE] (05:47)

What happened, I was one of the very first people who ever signed up for coaching with Chris. It was like, he started coaching and I was like maybe number three to, like one, two or three to sign up for his coaching. I was like, I want, who is this guy? I don’t know, and I want some of that. He posted a picture of a spreadsheet and I was like, what? So that was my pain point at that time was like, how am I going to make some money? I started working with him like the beginning of March of 2017, and by November of 2017 I had hired a part-time office assistant, I had doubled my practice and I bought a clinic building

[MICHELLE] (06:28)

Wow.

[JULIE] (06:29)

It was a big year.

[MICHELLE] (06:33)

Yes, and now you are at, I think you said three associates and then was it four office staff and then yourself?

[JULIE] (06:40)

Yep.

[MICHELLE] (06:40)

So what did the rest of that journey look like? Were you continuing to work with him or did it really just begin to snowball on its own?

[JULIE] (06:49)

Actually, I think a few months into, like by October I think, no, actually it was pretty soon afterwards, I was in his program, like six-month program and I was like, I love coaching. This is amazing. I was like, “Hey, can I help you with this?” I actually worked for Chris for six months and then my practice just got too busy. I’m like, I’m helping, I’m doing some calls for Chris people in the program, but I’m like, oh my God, my practice is so busy. And I didn’t, I’m the oldest of six kids, so I’m bossy, but I didn’t have a lot of management experience.,

[MICHELLE] (07:25)

You’re not bossy. You just give, you tell people what to do and it’s advice they should follow

[JULIE] (07:31)

I was like, how do I manage, I’d had some rough, after my first part-time office assistant who was just home for the summer, she just finished college, I hired a couple, not great hires and had to fire somebody and then somebody quit the night before a 25-patient day.

[MICHELLE] (07:53)

Oh my god.

[JULIE] (07:54)

And I’m like, there’s got to be a better way. So I figured it out. Hired a really good office manager, really took some time to stabilize systems to support that growth and then I hired an associate in January of 2019. So there’s growth, there’s great expansion, and then there’s a little contraction where you need to tend to the foundations. And then you can expand again. So there’s that very organic expansion, contraction

[MICHELLE] (08:21)

From that experience of having a good office manager and then some not so helpful people, do you have advice for people who are planning on hiring their first? Because I think it’s both realistic and a little scary when you hear people say, and you hear this all the time, that you are going to have great people and not so good. You’re going to have to learn how to manage your employees. You may have to fire them. It’s sort of like a terrifying approach. I think we’d all just like to start with someone marvelous and retire with them and never have to have those conversations.

[JULIE] (08:54)

Totally, absolutely. Absolutely. So I actually just did a workshop on like how to hire truly helpful office support. It’s just a one-hour workshop with some Q&A at the end. I recently hired a new office manager. I was like, I’m ready to level up. I have a little more clarity of what I want in an office manager. My previous office manager was with me for a little over a year, left for some personal reasons, so I actually, it starts with clarity. So it’s like, who do I want? I actually pictured one of my close friends who is a very competent 50 something year old woman with a teenager, she gets shit done. Oh, I shouldn’t swear. Sorry.

[MICHELLE] (09:36)

No, go for it. That’s okay.

[JULIE] (09:37)

She gets, she’s a list maker, she’s organized, she takes initiative and I was like, I want my friend Marrell. She was never going to be my office manager. She’s like digital media. She retired from corporate digital media. But I texted her, I was like, “Hey, can you be my avatar for my office manager?” She’s like, “Happy to be.” So I wrote the job description and it was very personalized, like it was very specific. This is what I want. This is how many hours I want this person. I literally want a Virgo or a Capricorn

[MICHELLE] (10:12)

I love it. Virgos make outstanding office managers. They’re like, “Can I make you a list? Can we share a spreadsheet?” Yes we can.

[JULIE] (10:24)

Exactly. So first it starts with clarity. It’s not, oh my gosh, what warm body would want to work with me? No, there’s warm bodies that want to work with you, but what kind of warm body? I was very specific, I wanted a woman and I wanted a middle-aged woman. I wanted somebody who had some mom energy to be at the front desk and that my team could really go to with like, “Hey, I need help with this,” and they would know, they just have that sort of ethos. I’ve had all kinds of different office managers, but for this incarnation, that’s what I wanted. And I didn’t write in there like, are you a middle-aged woman? I just use some language that would point to that.

[MICHELLE] (11:05)

It’s so funny you mentioned the mom energy because the first office manager that I ever hired, that’s how she hooked me. She was younger than me, but she had several kids and we were discussing in her interview that part of what I need is like a little bit of babysitting. I need someone who’s like, how are you doing with the charts? Because so and so is going to be here and you have overlapping patients and at the end of the day you don’t want to stay and do charts. She was like, “Oh, I have kids. I can totally corral you if that’s what you need,” and I was like, yes. Help me.

[JULIE] (11:36)

Totally, totally. And now like, I’m being corralled and I’m like.

[MICHELLE] (11:41)

I asked for this

[JULIE] (11:41)

But it’s like, it’s really growing our clinic in such good ways.

[MICHELLE] (11:47)

So then you probably have a similar approach, I would imagine, when you are thinking about hiring a new associate that you’re starting with clarity. Do you feel like you have a specific person in mind or it’s more open-ended?

[JULIE] (11:59)

I think for me, for our clinic, so I’m a fire type. I like to move. I have ADHD, my clinic is sort of organized and structured that way. So we have an all-cash practice. We’re in Kansas. If I were in Seattle or Maryland, it would be a different story possibly. But I see patients every 15 minutes when I see patients. So it’s go into the treatment room, be radically present, get needles in, move to the next room. So I tend to hire people who like to move at that pace and I screen for that. Does this energize you? Or I have made the mistake of hiring an associate, they’re like, I want to make that money, but oh my God, I don’t like moving at this pace. It’s counter to their qi and all of the coaching I do and, in my clinic, like there has to be a harmonious acknowledgement of the qi.

[MICHELLE] (12:51)

I like that.

[JULIE] (12:52)

So people are like, I like to move, I get bored if I go slow, that thing. Then people who are willing to learn and who are deeply committed to the medicine, but that are willing to also be part of a team, because one of the things that has helped my clinic grow so much and prevent the burnout is designing a very specific workplace culture reflective of Chinese medicine. So I think that is part of the draw. The newest associate I hired brand new, finished his boards last year, just got his license, but he was interviewing at a few different places and he was like, when you talk about how you’re specific in designing the culture of your team, that made me want to work here so badly.

[MICHELLE] (13:39)

I find that company culture, it matters so much because in some ways acupuncture can be a draining job. We’re interacting with so many people and we do have to sort of like protect and balance our qi and the way that the other people show up in the office has a big impact on that. You want to feel like things are flowing instead of there being friction.

[JULIE] (14:02)

Totally.

[MICHELLE] (14:03)

It’s so funny that you mention the 15-minute increments for patience and the need to, like, I don’t know if I would call it hustle because if your qi is balanced, I typically don’t think of the word hustle. But I worked for an acupuncturist many years ago. We went to school together and she had a really great, we would call it company culture, but I think there were only three of us at the time, me, her, and the receptionist. But she treated three patients an hour. I pretty quickly realized that that was too much for me, that I was having, and this was, gosh, maybe seven, eight years ago, I was having a hard time even like keeping track of who’s been in what room for how long. And of course, her receptionist was very integrated into the whole process, so it was part of her job to keep us on track, but it was really educational so that when I went back into practice by myself, I realized that two patients an hour is like my ideal. It prevents me from getting bored and it does help me dial in with that radical focus. I love that you said that because then I am very present, but I also do not feel rushed. I think it’s really important for people to figure out what is their ideal clinic situation so that they’re in that nice balanced place.

[JULIE] (15:24)

Absolutely. That is one thing that I think sometimes people will hear like, you see four patients an hour. Is that what you coach people to do? Absolutely not. No. It’s what is your qi? What do you want to create? What is going to nourish you and what’s going to be sustainable? Like what is the ecosystem you are going to thrive the most in?

[MICHELLE] (15:44)

So let’s talk about that a little bit. If I came to you as a solo practitioner and I was ready to scale, is there a process that you walk people through? What does that look like in your coaching?

[JULIE] (15:56)

So the heart of what I do with all of my coaching clients, like people with teams, solo practitioners, one-on-one people that I work with is I teach a series of 12 micro-mindfulness skills. At first, I was like, yeah, micro mindfulness, like I’ve been meditating for 30 years, I’m 52. I learned when I was 20. But these are very practical skills that help expand internal capacity. So first before say, a solo practitioner’s, like, I want to see more patients. I say, first let’s work on internal systems before we start marketing. Let’s expand your internal capacity so that these systems can hold your flow.

[MICHELLE] (16:36)

I love that.

[JULIE] (16:37)

It’s focused systems, so it’s really about directing the qi in the treatment room in a compassionate way. So the way I would see it when I would see patients, I would see 25 to 30 patients a day, but at the end of the day, I would feel like I’ve just been doing qi going all day. Like, okay, I’m just flowing. I’m flowing, and patients feel the flow. So I teach the internal capacity building as the foundation. That’s the ying of what I do. Then the yang of what I do is, okay, how are you communicating to patients? What expectations are you setting? How are you framing this? How are you framing this as a collaboration so that you’re not feeling like you’re drained all the time because you have to fix people? They’re like, I can’t do anything. You just need to fix me.

[MICHELLE] (17:27)

I feel like everyone that I have been interviewing recently has talked about the importance of systems in your practice. We talked about Virgos earlier, I’m a Virgo rising, I love me some systems.

[JULIE] (17:40)

So am I. Oh yes, me too. Virgo rising, Virgo moon, all the Virgo, all the Virgo

[MICHELLE] (17:44)

Yes.

[JULIE] (17:46)

Except for the aquarium.

[MICHELLE] (17:48)

I find that the, even in my own practice, the more streamlined systems that I have in place that explain that relationship between the patient and the practitioner, the less work I have to do in the treatment room and the better everything flows. It’s exactly what you’re talking about. I used to feel like I was constantly telling people about the number of treatments that is normal for acupuncture and like how long they would need to stick with me. I was repeating myself, but felt like no one was hearing me and finally I realized I need a document about this in my onboarding that is super clear in giant letters, like typically you need six to eight treatments or whatever it is for a person’s clinic, but to have it be really clear and to make them sign that piece of paper, whether it’s digitally or an actual piece of paper, but to have that be really the first thing that they read, hopefully they’re filling it out online before they arrive because that part of the system makes everything go better. It’s more smooth.

(18:55)

But I just found that when people were reading that in their initial intake, and then we sat down to have the discussion that when I got to the part about, I don’t know how familiar you are with acupuncture, but you’re going to need to come for multiple treatments, it’s cumulative, they were like, yes, I am aware of that and I just read it in your paperwork. So they understand that I am serious about this. I’m not saying like, it’s not a wishy-washy thing. And for me, especially as an introvert, having that, having it written and making them sign it, I think it’s like a nonverbal contract that takes some pressure off of me. And then I have energy for other things and then we’re both on the same page. It’s been very important in the practice

[JULIE] (19:38)

Yes, absolutely. We frame it we do free 15-minute consults, but don’t require them. So we talk about it there, and then we talk about it the first visit. Then at each subsequent visit when we’re pulling needles, we remind people, this is where you’re at, this is where we’re going. This is where you’re at. This is where you started, this is where we’re at, this is where we’re going. Because then people are like, oh yeah, this is a process. I might get discouraged the day before I come in again, but I know we’re going in the right direction. So it’s the, so back to that like solo practitioners, but also people with associates. Then I teach them this so they can teach their associates. The internal systems are the most important and if you’re spending money on advertising, if you don’t have strong internal systems, you’ve got a leaky boat.

[MICHELLE] (20:27)

Yeah, exactly. I was thinking of that precise analogy as you are saying that patients will just flow right out. You have to be able to retain them. I think they always say that it’s like seven or eight times easier to get a regular or a past client to reschedule than it is to reel in a new client. So it just makes more sense in terms of your energy and your finances to focus on the people who are already with you and make sure that those systems are really supportive so that they stay with you even as wellness patients, which is everyone’s dream, right. To have a practice filled with repeating wellness patients.

[JULIE] (21:07)

Totally. I guess that’s where I got. During the pandemic I was like open wearing masks. It was a safe space for people. I didn’t market at all during the pandemic because I had wait lists of like eight people a day and okay, I’m flowing, and then I’m like, okay, now it’s time to bring in some associates. I recently purchased your Acupuncture Marketing School because I was like, oh, the landscape of marketing is a little different than when I first started my practice. I have good internal systems, but now I’m marketing for my associates. I’ve taught them my systems, but I’m calling in slightly different patients for my associates.

[MICHELLE] (21:51)

Yes, and it’s so good to have a structure for your marketing as well, structure’s everywhere.

[JULIE] (21:58)

Totally. The system systems, systems. Because the systems, this is how I explain it to my coaching clients and how I deeply understand it, systems are the metal element and when you have a good strong metal element, they’ll hold the water element, which is flow. So you want to flow, you need some metal.

[MICHELLE] (22:16)

Absolutely. I’m curious how your coaching is set up, because it sounds like you have a beautiful system that you are walking people through, and that does take time to build. Do you have, is it like a six-month program? How does it work?

[JULIE] (22:30)

Yeah, so I primarily do small group coaching programs. One is called Open the Flow for solo practitioners who want to grow their practice and see more people, but also just a lot of times with solo practitioners, it’s like, if I get busy, I’ll be overwhelmed or drained. So we really address that. Open the Flow is for solo practitioners and then the leadership program is for people who have at least one employee. Sometimes it’s just a front desk person, but they’re pretty full and they’re looking at possibly hiring an associate. I have some coaching clients who have like 12 employees.

[MICHELLE] (23:03)

Amazing.

[JULIE] (23:04)

Each one is a six-month program, because that’s really the arc of transformation that it takes. I’ve tried smaller ones and I’m like, that’s not, we didn’t have enough time, kind of like when you tell an acupuncture patient, we need this much time to get transformation. The way that both of them are set up is we have a small group coaching call, limited, max of eight people, but usually it’s around six in a small group one hour. We ask questions because people are at a similar level. A really nice community is built and the questions are always relevant to the people in the group, solo practitioners or leadership people. Then in addition to that, we do a 30-minute skills lab each week to do a deep dive into those micro mindfulness skills and how we use them in the clinic specifically. People use them in their personal life and report improvement but here’s how we’re using it literally in the clinic, in the treatment room, so that your flow is better and you don’t go home drained at the end of the day.

[MICHELLE] (24:02)

Do you find that you have a lot of introverts? I am an introvert and I tend to talk about this a lot. A lot of my audience are introverts as well. Because I do think it’s really important to address what is your capacity for patients before you start to feel drained, because if you want to do this through retirement or even part-time until the very end, you really have to manage your energy to prevent burnout. But it sounds like you have some pretty specific approaches to helping people, like you said, expand that capacity without feeling drained.

[JULIE] (24:41)

Absolutely. So I think my definition of success is like coming home at the end of the day and being able to be really present to my husband, whom I love very much, and my 13-year-old kid who, you know teenagers have a lot of weather.

[MICHELLE] (24:56)

Weather? So diplomatic

[JULIE] (24:58)

So how can I come home and be present and not be like, “Don’t talk to me. I’ve listened to patients all day and I just can’t do it.” So it is about expanding capacity and all of these micro habits that actually have to do with listening to our bodies, just like we ask our patients to do so that at the end of the day, you’re like, yeah, basically I feel like I’ve been meditating all day.

[MICHELLE] (25:24)

I love it. Can you give us an example of a micro habit and what we might pay attention to, just really briefly?

[JULIE] (25:30)

Yeah, absolutely. So this is an example I use often, you’re in a treatment room and a patient’s telling you, they’re in their narrative and they’re like, and I’m never going to get better, or this terrible thing happened and you notice your body start to lean forward and you’re like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my god. So at that point, when I notice I start leaning forward and my neurons are starting to mirror their neurons. Then I’ve stopped directing the qi the treatment room, the patient’s then directing the qi. So what I notice, I’m like, oh, I’m leaning forward. Then I just will sit back in my chair and start breathing deeply. I’m listening, but I start focusing on my breath. It’s so crazy that this happens, but within a minute, 30 to like 90 seconds, their story starts to change, because you are, then they’re starting to mirror your neurons. And it’s not efforting. It’s not like, oh, I have to breathe and this is so hard. You’re like, I’m breathing, I’m breathing, I’m tending to my own nervous system. I’ve literally had patients be like “This is terrible, but I do think I can get better.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s get you on the table.”

[MICHELLE] (26:51)

I will absolutely try that. I feel like whenever I have a patient who is going down that spiral, I do have to catch myself so I don’t spiral with them and then I always am having the internal debate about whether I should verbalize the idea that it will probably be okay. But sometimes that’s tough because you are interjecting an opposing idea into that intense narrative that they’re pretty committed to and I would rather just breathe. So I’ll try it.

[JULIE] (27:21)

Yeah, yeah, totally. It’s like, I don’t have to effort this. All I have to do is start breathing. The qi starts reorganizing itself. Then so for like, I have this newer associate and I have also a very experienced associate who’s seen four people an hour for years. I just say, here’s what you do, every time, and this is a microsystem, every time you put your hand on the door handle, that’s your cue to breathe.

[MICHELLE] (27:50)

I have heard that before and I have tried that as well. I find it really useful that, it’s like every time you pass through a doorway, it’s a reset. It’s an opportunity to reset, to shed whatever sort of congested thought patterns you had in your, that are distracting and say, what am I doing? What is my goal and my purpose when I pass through this doorway? It certainly takes a lot of practice to catch yourself, but I think it’s incredibly useful.

[JULIE] (28:20)

And it’s a practice, exactly. So I have lots of those. They’re the micro mindfulness skills. Great in the abstract, here’s exactly how we’re applying them in the clinic.

[MICHELLE] (28:30)

Is that the labs that you talked about where they have the opportunity to actually practice?

[JULIE] (28:36)

Well, they practice and then it’s like, I tried this, I’m confused, or what does this mean, and just going deeper into the skill and how we’re incorporating it into our practices. So in addition to that skills lab, we have an hour administrative office hours too, so it’s a pretty robust program.

[MICHELLE] (28:55)

How nice to have the opportunity to ask very practical questions about what you’re experiencing in your body when you’re at work and to be able to ask them of multiple people who are doing the same work as you because acupuncture is so unique in that way.

[JULIE] (29:13)

Exactly.

[MICHELLE] (29:14)

I’m clearly very fascinated by this approach.

[JULIE] (29:17)

I do some workshops just as an opportunity for people to sort of get some very practical tips, but also work with the qi of their business. So for the summer solstice, I have a qi shift workshop coming up. That’ll be on Thursday the 22nd. I open those up to the public. My coaching clients get those too. Then I do practical workshops like, here’s how to expand internal capacity so that you can move from two to three or four rooms. I think the definition of success is being able to go home with resources, and to be living in flow with this medicine. It’s not like business over here, Chinese medicine over here, my personal life over here. How do you create harmony and flow and live your life in concert with Chinese medicine principles? Not to be perfect, but in flow.

[MICHELLE] (30:05)

That’s such a beautiful thing. I always try to remind my marketing students and my marketing clients that the, it’s really everything that you’ve said that the foundation should be creating a business that supports your life.

[JULIE] (30:18)

Yes, totally.

[MICHELLE] (30:19)

Thank you so much for being here. I have really enjoyed this conversation so much.

[JULIE] (30:24)

Me too, Michelle.

[MICHELLE] (30:25)

I’d love to have you back on some time if you’re up for it.

[JULIE] (30:29)

That would be super fun.

[MICHELLE] (30:30)

So where can we find you online? Where can we find you on social media?

[JULIE] (30:35)

I have a private Facebook group called, it’s a clunky title, Regenerative Business Practice for Holistic Health Entrepreneurs. Working on changing that. It is a private Facebook group. I post in there daily meditations on business and life and that thing. Then I’m also on instagram at lifeflow.consulting. Then my website is lifeflowconsulting.com.

[MICHELLE] (31:04)

Well, thank you so much for your time and your energy. I really appreciate it.

[JULIE] (31:08) Thank you. Thank you so much.