Welcome! This week I’m talking with my friend, acupuncturist and business coach, Jason Stein.

Jason runs a private practice in Joseph, Oregon, and has a wide range of business and coaching experience in the last 25 years.

Shortly after acupuncture school, he helped set up one of the first integrative medicine clinics in a Western hospital. He taught business classes at Oregon College of Oriental Medicine for over a decade. And he’s offered both group and one-on-one coaching for many years.

Jason’s goal is to help fellow acupuncturists grow their practices while thinking outside the box about what that might look like and how to achieve it.

I always appreciate that he gently challenges his clients to get honest about what they want, so that they can build a practice that fits and supports that vision. 

One of Jason’s personal goals has always been making enough time for his wife and four kids, and running two businesses means he has to practice what he preaches in terms of work-life balance.

Jason also has tons of practical marketing ideas to help you get visible in your community so you can grow your business.

I hope this fun conversation makes you think about what you need your acupuncture practice and marketing to look like in order to help you feel aligned, low-stress, and still meet your goals!

In this episode, we talk about:

  • How to optimize your Google Business profile to rank higher in a Google search
  • Jason’s decision to build a wellness center from the group up during the pandemic while living in a tiny house with his family
  • Tips to avoid burnout in your practice
  • Tips for introverts to feel comfortable and welcome at networking events
  • Marketing as trust building and why this matters
  • Why it’s probably time to raise your rates
  • And much more.

Hope you enjoy this conversation with Jason!

🎙️ Episode #56: Design Your Acupuncture Practice on Your Own Terms with Jason Stein

Show Notes:

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Transcript:

[MICHELLE GRASEK] (00:04)

Welcome to the Acupuncture Marketing School Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Grasek, and I’m here to help you get visible in your community, take marketing action with confidence and get more patients in your practice and more money in your pocket every week. We both know you’re a talented, passionate acupuncturist and that acupuncture has the power to change lives. So let’s dive right into this episode and talk about how you can reach more patients.

(00:34)

Hi, Jason. Welcome.

[JASON STEIN] (00:36)

Hi, Michelle. Thank you for having me.

[MICHELLE] (00:39)

I am so excited to talk with you today. Before we dive in, I thought I would let you introduce yourself to the audience.

[JASON] (00:47)

Oh, sure. My name’s Jason Stein. I became a licensed acupuncturist in 1998. Relatively quickly, I was recruited by a hospital to build an integrative medicine program, and over the years I was recruited by two different acupuncture schools to teach business curriculum because I have a love and a knack for the business side of healing. Done that for years and when Covid hit, I asked myself, what do I really want? I came to the middle of eastern Oregon into the mountains and built a wellness center from the ground up and for the last year, my wife and I have been splitting our time between building a wellness center in a town of 1200 and working online with wellness providers, a lot of acupuncturists that want to grow their business with more time and more money.

[MICHELLE] (01:47)

I love that you said the business side of healing, by the way, because I think that as acupuncturists, we naturally separate our healing part of our job from that awful running a business part of our job, but really it can be rolled together. And I just wanted to clarify for the audience, so they know you are a business coach so they could join your programs and they can work with you.

[JASON] (02:14)

Yeah.

[MICHELLE] (02:16)

So you mentioned that during the pandemic you were thinking about what you wanted and you decided what you wanted was to go back into practice because you were really working in teaching, marketing and business skills for a very long time and doing your online coaching. Then you, well, tell us about it, did you miss treating patients?

[JASON] (02:36)

Sometimes I miss treating, I would still treat neighbors and family members, but I wasn’t all the way in. I’ve always had a love for it, but I’d never wanted the pressure and so maybe I doubled down on the pressure because owning a wellness center is no small feat, especially when you build it from the ground up. But I believe in East Asian medicine, I believe this medicine can help, it’s helped me, it’s helped millions. It’s been around for thousands of years. So I just came to the conclusion that I wanted to design it in a way that worked for me so I could do it on my own terms. I don’t take insurance, I treat two half days a week, I have one room, and then I have a community clinic for donation because we don’t take any insurance in our clinic.

[MICHELLE] (03:33)

I always feel like it’s a unique skill to be able to divide your brain between being in practice and then having what’s essentially a totally separate business with your coaching online. So how has that been managing those two very separate parts of your brain?

[JASON] (03:55)

It was going really good until it got split again and executives started to find me. So I started doing executive business coaching. And having the three different wings has been a balance because I am a big fan of being with your family, spending time off, not working every day of the week. So there’s definitely a learning curve of like, not everyone fits into a mold. Like my company’s called Wellness Renegades because I believe in being a renegade. And lots of times we’re told by marketers or by other people, you can only do one thing and you have to niche down and stick to what you know and there’s outliers and I’m an outlier. I like to do lots of things and I want to do it in ways that I don’t feel too spread out.

[MICHELLE] (04:51)

I think it’s always nice to hear people talk about how they can shape their business to fit their life and not the other way around. Do you feel like your practice is continuing to grow just sort of naturally,

[JASON] (05:06)

The acupuncture practice?

[MICHELLE] (05:08)

Yes.

[JASON] (05:08)

I’m blown away. There’s only 7,000 in the county, people, and there’s four acupuncturists for those 7,000. It grows to the point where I don’t want to get any busier. So I love the donation clinic because when people say, well, do you take my insurance, well, I can superbill you or you can come to the donation clinic.

[MICHELLE] (05:37)

Yeah, that is such a nice option. I feel like that is really, everyone’s dream is sort of to hit that point in their practice where they can’t take new patients, where the hours that they want to be working are truly filled up and you’re at max capacity. Do you feel like having the different wings of your business gives you creativity in the other parts of your business? Does that question make sense?

[JASON] (06:05)

Yeah, it does, absolutely. Because all three wings, I’m part owner, that means I’m part marketer, I’m part salesman, I’m part janitor. I like it like that because I lived in a tiny house for two years with two kids and my wife while we built the center and it taught me a lot about simplifying. So how can you have three different wings to a corporation but still simplify? The answer is you can.

[MICHELLE] (06:44)

And in your business coaching, I, because we have known each other for many years, we should mention that for the audience, I think we discussed it recently. Has it been six years? Seven years? It’s been quite a few.

[JASON] (06:56)

It’s been a while.

[MICHELLE] (06:58)

We hosted a group coaching program together probably five years ago. And you have always been a big proponent of marketing and building a practice is not a cookie cutter experience and that it should always be about what are your goals as a person? Like you mentioned you have all these goals relating to spending time with your family and how can you build something, a business that serves you and doesn’t, basically something that doesn’t burn you out so that you can have space for those other goals and meet those other things in your life. I think that is a really interesting topic lately, how to avoid burnout.

[JASON] (07:43)

I think that one thing is, although I don’t believe in cookie cutter models, I do believe in systems, so like a marketing system, I spent a year drilling down into Google business profiles because I find that a lot of people spend a lot of time on Instagram and other social media, yet they’re not getting the conversion that they want. So Google Business profiles can definitely lead you to new patients really quickly and easily. So I think the answer comes down to really understanding that marketing can be sharing and sharing can be an olive branch of invitation to others and if you can do that regularly and consistently with clarity, then everything else gets easier.

[MICHELLE] (08:38)

I definitely agree with you that systems really help streamline everything that you’re doing, but you can make the system specific to your goals and your needs for your practice. One thing I always tell my marketing students is it’s okay if there’s a marketing that they really hate. They don’t have to do that. Just experiment and figure out this particular marketing avenue works for me and brings in patience and I don’t hate it and it’s something I can see myself doing consistently in the future. Then once you’ve done that, you can create systems that work for you so that you can repeat them without having to think about them too much. I think that is really helpful for preventing burnout.

[JASON] (09:19)

Yeah, let me take that one step deeper. I had a client in Austin who hates social media, like not their thing. So together we developed a plan that they could only treat influencers and they could have like an influencer program within their acupuncture practice. It really generated a lot of new patients and a lot of visibility in a sector that they didn’t want to spend a lot of time on.

[MICHELLE] (09:49)

That’s so clever. So they were treating the influencers who then went back to Instagram, we’ll say for example, and talked about their experience, so they are creating all of the content, which is the time consuming part that the acupuncturist doesn’t want to do. I mean, that’s perfect. That’s brilliant.

[JASON] (10:07)

I’m a big fan, because of time, I’m all about time and money, that you have to figure out alliances. What parts are your natural genius that you love and then how can you connect with others that their natural genius is something different than yours?

[MICHELLE] (10:24)

Yes. We have been talking a lot about improving Google profiles over the past, I would say year, maybe two years and I think that you taught a class on it for a while, which is wonderful. One of the things that I teach my students always is if you live in a country where you can collect reviews and testimonials, that these are free, and it’s an amazing way to leverage social proof and help new people who are searching in your area for acupuncture trust you much faster, if you can build testimonials and reviews. And of course, Google is the engine that we mostly use to do that. Yelp is out there, but it’s much less popular. So I’m always asking my marketing clients and students are you actively asking for Google reviews? Are you basically paying any attention to your Google profile at all? What are your recommendations for what people can start doing right away outside of the reviews, which I think is something, that’s the first thing people think of, but your Google business profile is much deeper than that. There’s many other layers that people can work on. What do you recommend?

[JASON] (11:35)

Oh, yeah, when I started, when I opened the business here, I live in Joseph, Oregon, I noticed there were a couple acupuncturists in the neighboring town that is about 15 minutes away and they came up before I did. Although I’m in, am I the only one in Joseph? I don’t know. But I know that I was not coming up first. So I retooled my Google Business profile, started using it, and within a week I was coming up first. So what are the things that you can do? One Google drives by and takes a picture and that’s the automatic picture that’s on your Google Business profile and sometimes there’s like a big truck in front of your building, sometimes it’s not a very flattering picture

[MICHELLE] (12:23)

Or it’s like the dead of winter. I think that’s the photo on my Google Business profile. It’s like the most depressing day of winter.

[JASON] (12:32)

So changing that is really helpful. Most people think just putting the town they’re in, but most neighboring towns, most counties in the US you can add that to your Google profile so you’re getting a larger reach and then updating it like you do Instagram, just throw pictures up with sometimes offers, sometimes no offers. The last thing I’ll say about Google business is it does all the metrics for you. So at the end of the month, you can pop on and you can figure out how many people saw your profile, how many picked up the phone and called you. If you have your online schedule in there, how many appointments were made. There’s lots of data points you can pull. Again, the town of 1200, I consistently get around 700 views on my Google business profile and I get about 10 new calls per month.

[MICHELLE] (13:33)

Which is really pretty amazing considering it’s such a small town. Assuming that you are pulling from those other neighboring towns because you included their name in your Google profile. So these are all things that we can update if we just log in to our Google business profile. Is that right?

[JASON] (13:50)

Yes, for free.

[MICHELLE] (13:52)

There’s one other part, and this might be something that you mentioned, because you said that you can add updates with like a photo and you can make an offer or you don’t have to, I’m trying to picture my Google profile and I can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s almost like posting a Facebook post, like an announcement on your Google profile. So how often do you recommend doing that? Because very few people use that and I try to do it once a month, but I feel like that’s probably not often enough.

[JASON] (14:25)

That’s the thing with Google Business profile is just start with once a week posting something. It could be an offer, it could be an announcement, it could be a testimonial. Literally, if you just get one new review per month within a year, that’s 12 more. Most people aren’t using this strategy at all and it’s probably the best free brick and mortar strategy.

[MICHELLE] (14:50)

Yes, for sure. I have found that for every, we’ll say 10 testimonial requests I send out via email, I will get, it really depends between four and six testimonials. So pretty much everyone will say, yes, I’m happy to leave you a review, but then some people never get around to it. And even though I give them the specific link that brings them directly to the review page where they just have to click the stars and leave the words, they still can’t figure out how to do it. Or people just get really busy. So I feel like that’s a pretty great return on your time investment for sending out a template email. That’s all I do. I have the same template email with a very gentle ask. I also give people a natural out. I say in the email I understand that not everyone is comfortable making public statements that have their name attached to them. So if you don’t want to do this, I’m not offended. So it just seems to work so well, but I have a really hard time convincing people to ask for this simple thing that I really think most of our patients are so enthusiastic about acupuncture and about supporting us, that they would love to do it. They just sort of don’t think about it on their own.

[JASON] (16:15)

I have a couple of strategies there. One is most people say yes and then they get busy and they don’t mean to ghost you on your request. They’re just in it. I don’t know where Covid is with HIPAA compliance, but I’m not talking about medical care. I’m just texting them to say, “Hey, just want to know if you’re still interested in this.” So that’s, using text can be helpful because it’s a modality that most of your patients are using all day every day. The other is, I get really specific in the request. I love, Jane app has a plugin. I know you use Unified Practice. The plugin’s really great because it just goes into the email signature.

[MICHELLE] (16:58)

Amazing.

[JASON] (16:59)

Yeah. So lots of people using Jane don’t know that it has a Google Review plugin and it’s really easy to set up. The last piece would be in your template and being specific about your request. Sometimes you can add a timeline, like would you be willing to do this by the end of the month? So that adds a little bit of internal pressure for the person.

[MICHELLE] (17:24)

That’s a great idea.

[JASON] (17:25)

Then I always say, would you be willing to share a specific result that you received? It makes them think, because when you’re in the treatment room with them and you’ve just treated them for back pain, they’re like, I can’t believe how much better I feel. Oh my God, I was at a 10 and now I’m at a two. Then they write you a testimonial and they’re like, “Go to Michelle, she’s great.”

[MICHELLE] (17:52)

Verbatim.

[JASON] (17:53)

So just giving them a little bit of parameter of what you’re really wanting is going to be helpful to get better testimonials.

[MICHELLE] (18:02)

Yes, absolutely. And it’s so true because I find that if I don’t say something like, “Do you mind sharing how one or two of your symptoms has improved,” then I get testimonials that are, like, everyone is so sweet and they mean so well, but the testimonials are almost like stuffy. They’re like, “Michelle is extremely professional and her clinic is clean,” and I’m like, well, thank goodness.

[JASON] (18:32)

I don’t get the stuffy ones if I don’t get specific, I get like the ones from your middle school yearbook that’s written in the back. “Really like Jason. Keep in touch.”

[MICHELLE] (18:44)

Most likely to be successful in Joseph, Oregon. That’s a great idea

[JASON] (18:49)

But the simplest things are the hardest to do and if you can just have a simple marketing plan on your Google Business profile super helpful.

[MICHELLE] (19:00)

I don’t think you’re teaching that class anymore, but I would imagine that’s something that you really walk people through in your coaching.

[JASON] (19:09)

Yeah. I also just have for people that don’t want to have a coach for six months, because that’s normally how long I work with people. I do have a Google Business profile review where they can just hire me and we look at what they have and then we fine tune it for what they need.

[MICHELLE] (19:24)

Got you. We’ll definitely put a link to that in the bio so people can find it. I’m really curious with your coaching clients, what marketing, presumably outside of the Google Business, everything, what seems to be working really well for people with their brick-and-mortar businesses right now?

[JASON] (19:43)

It’s a great question because it depends on the individual. I definitely have clients that are gaining traction on Instagram and they get phone calls and reviews. I have other clients that give public talks and by going out into the public, they definitely do it. Some of my clients joined BNI, Business Network International, and that’s a fit for them and others, it makes them want to just throw up. So like you said, this cookie cutter model, you got to be okay with being a little uncomfortable in the beginning, and then you might find that something you really resisted, like blogging or podcasting you love. So I’m a big fan of don’t decide until you do it.

[MICHELLE] (20:33)

I’m so happy that you said that. Even the things that work out well, you have to be willing to be a little uncomfortable in the beginning. I think that almost anything new that we try in any area of life is going to be uncomfortable in the beginning and you have to stick with it just long enough to decide is this going to be uncomfortable and miserable for me forever or was it just the fact that this is new and I’m learning or getting started? One of those things for me has been going to networking meetings. For a really long time I was like, I’m never doing this. I hate it. It was more like, I hate it in principle because I wouldn’t go often enough to actually get to know anyone. I have been going to a networking group, like it’s like the next town for over a year now and I am such an introvert, I still naturally get a little nervous and have to convince myself to go out on like a Wednesday evening to meet people and eat snacks with them. That’s just the level of introvert that I am, but now I know that when I get there, there’s going to be at least one person who will say hello to me and I can stand with them and then they will introduce me.

[JASON] (21:49)

I won’t make eye contact, but I’ll stand next to them.

[MICHELLE] (21:52)

Oh no, I’ll make awkward eye contact with people until they say hello to me because I’m like a bug trapped in Amber. I’m like, shake my hand. No, it’s not that brutal. I did this, sometimes my honesty when I am anxious is so intense for other people, but it really helps me out. So what I’ll do is I told the director of that networking group, probably about six months ago, that I am an introvert and so it’s been a little bit of a struggle for me to attend every meeting and the hardest part is introducing myself to strangers and interrupting a group of people who clearly already know each other and just being like, hello, can I stand in this circle with you? Because that’s what it is, essentially. So since I told her that, she asked me, “Well, when you arrive, do you want me to introduce you to someone new at every meeting?”

[JASON] (22:48)

That’s awesome.

[MICHELLE] (22:49)

I was like, “If you want to facilitate that would be phenomenal.” She is a natural for that position. That’s why she has that job. So she has done that at pretty much every meeting and she makes a point to say hello to me. And I think that if we are willing to be uncomfortable and admit to someone in charge, like, “Hey, I have a hard time introducing myself to strangers, but I love this group and I’ve gotten so much benefit out of it, can you help me, can you just introduce me,” I can almost guarantee that people are going to say yes and they’re going to want to help you because for an extrovert, it’s such a simple thing to say, or for someone whose job it is to facilitate those meetings, it’s really easy for them to be like, “Oh, you are new and you are new, here you go. Now you’re friends.”

[JASON] (23:39)

Yeah, it’s really hard for introverts because you go to those meetings and they have a loud sound system and they’re passing around a mic for everyone to introduce themselves. I remember the first time I went to one of those, I was just counting off, I’m like, three, two, I’m Jason, and mic off. It’s a little bit like all your flashbacks of panic from high school will pop up and like trying to fit in. What I say a good strategy, because I do think it’s good to get yourself out of the box for the introverts just to attend, when you attend, usually like Jedi training to scan the room, pick one person that you just resonate with that you can feel like, wow, they, I like them, they seem like a good person. Strike up a conversation that can be short and then ask them if they’d like to go to coffee sometime. So you could have one ally in the room just by inviting them to do something away, because for most introverts, a one-on-one coffee date is way easier than it is to go in a room full of mostly extroverts.

[MICHELLE] (24:54)

Yeah, and I find that my silver bullet lately has been to, if we’re seated, if it’s like an event where we’re eating dinner or something, is to approach a table full of people who I like resonate with just upon looking at them, like you’re describing like, oh, these people look cheerful and happy and they have an extra seat. I will just say, do you mind if I join you? Literally no one will ever tell you no. They’re always like, oh yes, let me move my purse. Let’s scoot over, let’s make space for you, and that helps enormously as well.

[JASON] (25:28)

Yes. One of my strategies since opening the clinic has been, go find the naysayers in the community and give them a free treatment or a couple free treatments. So I’ve treated loggers and ranchers and people you think are like acupuncture is voodoo, they’re still in that mentality and by turning them on because they’re influencers. So it’s taking that Austin trick and using it a different way, it’s really turned on to like, if you can help someone out of pain quickly or sleeping or letting go of their anxiety they’re going to refer to you.

[MICHELLE] (26:11)

Yes, I feel really lucky because recently I started treating a contractor who is a mega extrovert and he’s feeling so much better. So he’s convincing all of these other contractors he works with who would never maybe consider acupuncture to give it a try. He sent quite a few referrals because he’s in charge and they trust him. I mean, and that’s not to say that contractors or other people who work with their hands aren’t interested in acupuncture. I think they totally are. It’s just like no matter the industry sort of breaking in with someone who has some sort of influence, people already trust them. I heard a really great quote earlier today that marketing is, something to the effect of, it’s about like how far you can build your trust or how far trust carries you. I’m so sorry, I can’t think of the exact quote, but it was really just emphasizing that everything that you’re doing with marketing is trying to build up enough trust in people who have doubts so that they decide to take the risk and make an appointment with you, whether they consider it a financial risk or if they consider it more of like an emotional risk, like they don’t know what to expect and it feels scary and it’s hard for them to just show up and say like, okay, do this thing to me that I don’t understand. But the more trust you can build and the more that sort of like, spreads out and has its ripple effect in your community the easier your marketing will get.

[JASON] (27:43)

Yes. It’s amazing to me that, when I talked about the tracking on Google Business profile and just looking at the numbers often, we don’t track on the grateful patients that are sending us the most people. When we can do that, we can offer some free ear seeds. There’s ways to pay back the generosity that they’re sharing that allows them to be seen, and then they continue to be frontline an extension of your business that they love sharing you.

[MICHELLE] (28:16)

That’s a really good point. I used to write an individual thank you card for everyone who sent me a referral that I definitely knew about. I have not done that in a long time, just things get really busy. But people appreciated being seen for the effort that they made. And I think you’re right that it really compounds on itself and motivates them to continue. And of course, we’re not writing a thank you so that they keep marketing for us. We’re writing a thank you to really tell them like, thank you for going out on a limb and explaining acupuncture to your uncle and convincing him to come in. That means so much and I appreciate your effort.

[JASON] (28:58)

Yeah, and the beautiful thing of that thank you note is that most people don’t get mail so it really stands out. Notes.

[MICHELLE] (29:08)

Yes. I’ll have to start writing those notes again. I’m such a fan of snail mail. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one left. I like send, I send all of my patients handwritten holiday cards.

[JASON] (29:19)

That’s awesome.

[MICHELLE] (29:20)

Oh my gosh, and I actually, usually I’ll pick a hundred people because a hundred is an outrageous number of holiday cards, like that’s my limit. I don’t know, there’s something really special about getting a card in the mail. I just have a couple more questions for you. I have been talking with a lot of people lately, marketing clients and just in general, hearing this conversation online about how hard it is for people to raise their rates, especially when we are in a recession. I think that whenever somebody brings up the question like, how do I know when it’s time to raise my rates, how do I know when it’s right? It’s time. Like if you were thinking about it. You’ve probably been thinking about it for a while, there are reasons underlying the question, and it probably is a yes, but it definitely, it can be a sticky topic. What do you, how do you walk people through that?

[JASON] (30:17)

Sure. I mean, I’ve had clients that haven’t raised their rates for 10 years, and so it happens for sure. And every year I choose a word of the year, and normally it’s like happiness, wealth, health. This year’s discomfort. It’s big

[MICHELLE] (30:37)

Fun times.

[JASON] (30:38)

What I find is if you look at CBT, Cognitive Behavior Therapy, if you look at the history, if you look at transformation, it’s always about stories and are you believing the story that you’re telling? Ultimately, I have a quote, I saw it on a bumper sticker, and I took it because I really appreciated it, it said, don’t believe everything you think. So the people that I work with that are afraid to raise their prices and they’re resistant to raise their prices, haven’t had the experience of raising them or they forgot about the last time they raised them and there’s generally one or two people that are upset or they wish they didn’t get raised. Then often I’ve had clients that their patients have thanked them. Like, really, you deserve to get more.

[MICHELLE] (31:37)

I have heard that from people

[JASON] (31:39)

For yourself. So it does happen quite often. So how do you get over the hurdle of doing something you know is going to benefit your clinic? Because it really is one of the few things you can do in your practice that doesn’t take more time, but makes more money. You’re doing the exact same thing, but you’re getting more money for it. So normally what I do is I have an exercise that I work with people about the amount to raise the rates so that they can be open-hearted about it and they know their ego’s still going to pop in, but they don’t have to let that person drive the front seat. Then the last thing is raising your rates could really bring in an influx of money because you could, in certain states, you can sell packages. You can always sell a package at the current rate before the new rate raises and it’s an opportunity to do an offer as you’re announcing the letter that says that you’ll be raising rates.

[MICHELLE] (32:41)

Oh, I love that. That’s such a great idea. It always amazes me because we know logically that inflation increases every year, so that means the cost of doing business is going up. But it’s so super scary for most people to raise their rates because they, just imagine like half of their patient base evaporating. But it’s like you said, if they forget that, oh, five years ago I did do this and the outcome was just fine.

[JASON] (33:11)

I think people get themselves into a pickle a little bit that they raised their rates for new people, but not old people. If you make the business really complicated, it becomes hard. So the simplest way, forward’s the best way forward. I would say if you know that you need to raise rates and you can’t do it, work with someone like Michelle, myself or someone else and get the other person holding that pole while you make the changes

[MICHELLE] (33:39)

Yeah, the accountability piece. I sometimes wonder if that is the most important part of business coaching. Because you can give all the really great advice in the world but there’s got to be that that moment where the person decides to take action and if you are on the other end of that waiting with an expectation and they know that it helps enormously and it makes it so much less painful. They do the thing and then it’s done and then their stress is gone and they’re like, wow, I didn’t realize it was going to be so much better on the other side of whatever the step is, if it’s getting on video or raising their rates or sending their first email newsletter after a couple years of silence

[JASON] (34:27)

Following up on the accounts receivable. There’s lots of them.

[MICHELLE] (34:31)

Yes, there are many, many, many.

[JASON] (34:33)

To me coaching is like personal training and actually the best acupuncturist I know use motivational interviewing or another technique to like what lifestyle change is the patient going to make on top of getting their chia imbalance, which is what our job is.

[MICHELLE] (34:53)

Well, I have one more question for you, and that is, what is your definition of success?

[JASON] (34:58)

That’s a great question. My definition of success would be to have enough time and enough money to live life on my own terms.

[MICHELLE] (35:12)

I appreciate that.

[JASON] (35:13)

Yeah, so really figuring out for yourself, if you want to be successful, be successful in your own terms. Like how much do you actually need to sustain and start getting ahead rather than six figure, seven figure, eight figure. Like get out of the hype and get into the basics.

[MICHELLE] (35:33)

I love it. Well, thank you so much for your time. It’s always great to chat with you.

[JASON] (35:38)

Aw, thank you for having me. I always appreciate seeing you online and your blog is like, it’s just really good.

[MICHELLE] (35:45)

Thank you, thank you. So where can we find you online? Where can we follow you on social media?

[JASON] (35:52)

Awesome. Wellnessrenegades.com is where you can find me online, podcast is on all major searches at, Wellness Renegades is the name of the podcast. And then I’m on Facebook at Jason Stein.2, And then I’ll on Instagram at Wellness Renegades.

[MICHELLE] (36:11)

Perfect. We’ll include all the links for everybody.

[JASON] (36:15)

I appreciate you and for those listening, I appreciate this community. It is not the easy road. We didn’t talk about student loan debt, we didn’t talk about the hodgepodge of insurance and all that stuff. And really, you are needed in this community to help people heal and there’s ways you can do it where you get paid and you get time off, so you’re not working every single day. So thanks for having me, Michelle, and I appreciate you guys listening.

[MICHELLE] (36:43)

Thank you so much.

[JASON] (36:45)

Bye.